I posted a note yesterday, and am really hoping someone responds with some advice/experience. We have two bulldogs, 8 mos old - littermates and like our kids. The boy started 10 minute-long head tremors (strong ones) yesterday morning and had them throughout the day/night. He's at the vet and they have done blood work and bile-acid test. The vet said the thryoid was a little bit low, but shouldn't be the main cause of the head tremors (since they are so frequent and long). This started all of a sudden! He was happy and healthy before this. Now his sister had a small head tremor last night - not very long and seemed to be able to be easy for her to stop...
Has anyone had an MRI? Or a spinal-fluid test? These are the next steps and while I have read other people's posts, I can't seem to find one who had the MRI done. Please let me know. Thank you.
similar problem
My female english bulldog puppy (7 months old) has also had similar problems over the last month. Around once a day, her head slightly shakes left to right uncontrollably. Episodes last for around 3 to 5 minutes and after the tremor she appears to be fine. The neurologist has recommended an MRI and a Spinal Tap to ascertain the cause of the problem, and 90mg of phenobarbital (morning and night) has not reduced the tremors.
The breeder has not experienced this problem in any of her bulldogs.
What's frustrating is the possibility of not finding out the cause of the problem even after the MRI and spinal tap.
Is viral meningitis possible in dogs?
yes - we think it is VERY strange this has happened to both puppies. We thought about anything they could have been exposed to - and aside from some Roundup weed killer, there's nothing new (and the bottle says there is no effect on humans or animals after it is dried, which it was).
Also, the boy's bile-acid test showed nothing abnormal. And - they actually took blood glucose samples right when he was actually having a tremor, and it turned out normal, which seems to indicate that it is not associated with hypoglycemia. However, we have taken the precaution of adding yogurt to their meals and putting some Karo syrup on their tongues. (all info from this site!!)
I am very suspicious that they both got a cold right when these tremors started happening. That is why I am very curious if viral meningitis is possible in dogs?? My mother is a doctor and was very worried about our girl pup since she got the same cold as the boy. Sure enough, this morning, the second day of her cold, she had a longer/stronger head tremor and I'm at my wit's end.
size of spinal fluid sack in bulldogs
Yes, thank you - the vet said that the size of the spinal fluid sack for bulldogs is, indeed, typically a bit larger than other breeds of dogs. But he said that our dog's seemed still larger than 'normal' for English bulldogs. He did also say, however, that since MRI's have only been conducted on animals for about 12 years, there hasn't been significant precedence/track record established, so there are still some approximations of what is 'normal'. I have a feeling we'll be keeping our eye on him and seeing if he has any more seizures or displays any more subtle signs that it could be getting worse (e.g. increased clumsiness, incoordination, lethargy) and maybe we'll have to get another MRI and compare. I'm not sure yet...
Obviously, also, if the seizures keep occuring, we'll have to explore further.
Thanks for your support and suggestions.
weed killer
I would make sure the doctors know about the weed killer. Even though it says it is safe, we've all heard stories of products on the market, though "safe", have proven to have ill and serious effects on animals. And, just be your two are more sensitive.
Also, not just what you think YOU put in your yard, how about the neighbors?? I've known of peoples dogs dying because a neighbor put poisoning out. Also, there are certain plants, i.e, oleanders, that are poisonous. I knew of someone who lost their dog, and had been so careful, didn't have any in their yard. But, the neighbor did, and some leaves had fallen into their yard.
Also, could be epilepsy, and that is why it is showing up with both littermates. The way I understand it, you really can't prove if seizures are from epilepsy or from injury or other. You just have to treat the symptoms. I've never experienced it, but I believe in past posts on this board there was information on epilepsy and a web site to go to for more info.
I know how frustrating it is, and sometimes, with all the time and money, you really can't find the exact answer. But, do check out about the weed killer and possible effects. And, check the yard and ask the neighbors if they've put anything out recently.
Patti
Re: thanks and an update
I was told that it was not uncommon for all bulldogs to have some hydocephalus. I know Spike's MRI also showed this. I think it has to do with the amount of fluid andwhat is normal for bulldogs and what is abnormal. Iam sure your vet is aware of this but just in case - wanted to share what I was told.
Sharon
Re: Please help with head tremors!
I am so sorry you are going thru this with your pups. I have a 9 month old who had his first seizure at 6 months so I know how hard it is to see these little babies going thru this. I hope your vet can find something for you.
I have had an MRI and a Spinal Tap done just recently. So I will be glad to answer any questions you may have. My dog did well with the tests. I have been working with the University of PA Vet Hospital trying to find out what is going on with my dog. They did find a brain abnormality However they are not sure what this means yet and if this could be causing the seizures. They are researching other dogs, other bulldogs and other children who have this abnormality.
I decided to get the MRI because my dog was having such a hard time and I felt I had to try everything. These tests are expensive (our summer vacation!!!) and what I was told is that often they do not find anything significant. But it does rule out some possible causes.
My dog also had seizures and not just head tremors. If you look at the posts on here about head trmors and seizures you will see that there are many different thoughts and opinions. Low blood sugar can cause head tremors but you need to look at what is causing the low blood sugar. Seizures themselves can and do cause low blood sugar so what comes first??? In any case, a tablespoon of bryers vanilla ice cream can raise the blood sugar. But this is just treating the symptom - Kind of like an aspirin for a headache).
There is also a good web site on seizures - go to te table of contents and look thru the different articles. There are some good articles on low thyroid and seizures.
www.canine-epilepsy-guardian-angels.com
Shaon
head tremors
there were a lot of posts on head tremors lately, but I don't remember any on MRI's. do you have a vet that specializes in bulldogs ?
good luck and keep us all posted,
marci and sherman
here's a thought..........ear infection ?
Update on head tremors
Hello and I am so relieved to feel some sort of information/support network here.
We got the results of our dog's MRI - the radiologist confirmed he has hydrocephalus. I think it was aggravated by a slight inner-ear infection that he got from a sinus cold that seemed to trigger all of this. But, apparently, the hydrocephalus was building so it would likely have surfaced at some point, anyway. The vet also tried to get a spinal tap but could not get enough fluid out to take a test. I'm not sure if we will go back to get the spinal tap - I guess if it seems like it would help solve any more problems.
I had read about the Phenobarb on the site, so we have now gotten prescriptions instead for KRB (Potassium Bromide) 100mg/day, broken up to 2x a day at 500mg. Methazolamide at 150mg/day, broken up to 3x/day at 50mg. He said this is the same 'brain diuretic' that humans and dogs have used for glaucoma. He also has antibiotics for the ear infection (prednisone and cephalexin) and cytotec to coat the tummy while he is being bombarded with all these new pills. We are still awaiting the results of the 2nd thyroid test, which, if indicate low like the first one, may mean he has some form of hypothyroidism. If he has this ALSO, then the vet said that to just treat the hydrocephalus would not necessarily solve the seizures. He would also need some thyroid treatment.
I think our hope/goal is to try to be seizure-free and not on a lifetime of KRB.
We have decided that if our girl pup has another minor head tremor we will just go straight to the tests and MRI since it is too coincidental that they are experiencing similar tremors (although hers are much less severe) and they are littermates.
I have to say that I am somewhat relieved that at least we know what we are up against. Of course the cost of the tests are a sting on the wallet...and, no, we are not of an income that makes it a flip decision. But we just really wanted to get to the root of the problem. Also, if the hydrocephalus was left untreated, it would lead to increasing pressure on the brain and the tremors could turn into grand mal seizures.
I was worried that the MRI would not turn up anything, since it seems that happens sometimes. But the vet had said from the first consultation that while he would do the blood and liver work first and was hopeful it was a minor problem, he has seen an increasing number of English Bulldogs with this condition in the last 5-6 years - "water on the brain". I think this is a VERY important message to get out.
I contacted our breeder, whom I have no doubts really knew nothing of this issue. It is not even known if this is genetic yet, although one would think it has to be since it is growing in the breed. I mainly just wanted her to know in case any of her other pups had it and so she, as a breeder, would now be aware of this growing trend.
Just to clarify in case anyone thinks it's a 'not my dog/not my breeder' issue - the mother has had 14 pups with absolutely NO problems (except one case of cherry eye) for over 2 years of age. Our dogs' father is an international champion. And, while admittedly biased, I have to say our dogs are otherwise beautiful and the male, in particular, is 'show quality'. So, apparently, this can happen to seemingly well-bred dogs.
I would highly recommend our doctor to anyone - the facilities in general are also amazing - state of the art and they treat animals as well as any excellent hospital treats people: All Care Animal Referral Center in Fountain Valley, California (Orange County): 800-944-PETS. Our doctor was Dr. Craig Bergstrom, internist and neurologist.
We are very, very hopeful that some regular medication to control the swelling in the brain will allow our dogs to lead very happy, long lives.
By the way - since we opted for a start on the bromide instead of the quicker-acting Phenobarb, our dog will still have tremors for a few weeks. I asked what to do during them and the vets just recommended to try to talk him through it - don't try to stop it, necessarily - just let him know you're there. My eyes are still tearing when I see it, but I really believe when I whisper to him 'it will be OK'.
My husband and I discussed if we would ever get bulldogs again - we had read up on all the other problems inherent in the breed, but this one is so different and so much more distressing. I feel like I could handle a hip surgery better than I can handle watching my dogs shake uncontrollably. It's such a hard question to ask ourselves - we honestly love these dogs and find the breed so special. It's impossible to imagine not having the breed's wonderful personalities and faces in our household forever. I hope this trend dies out.
Sorry for the long note, but aside from being therapeutic for myself, I'm hoping it will help someone else out and encourage more people to share their experiences/advice. Thanks again to everyone for their interest and support.
Re: Head Tremors
It is strange that both puppies are having this problem. Makes you wonder if it could be something environmental. Is there any plants they can/have eatened or chewed on, is there any spraying or fertilizing that ha been done, etc...? There could be things such as this that is causing these symptoms.
Patti
Head Tremors
CJ,
My dogs have never experienced head tremors but I've read & heard that they can sometimes be caused by low blood sugar. Most of the time they would happen in the morning after not eating all night & having an empty stomach. A little yogurt, honey or ice cream usually brings the sugar level back up & the tremor stops.
Seems strange that both dogs would be having the same symptoms at the same time.
Good luck.
Hydrocephalus
A friend of mine has a female bulldog (around 2 years old) that was recently diagnosed with hydrocephalus. I'm sure she would be happy to talk with you and share her experience so far. If you're interested, let me know your email address and I'll put you in touch with her. =)
head tremors
I am curious about the severity of the seizure. My bully has the occassional head tremor. It looks like Parkinson's. Sometimes she will have brief episodes for two days in a row and then we may not see anything for 6mo. Is the puppy completely out of it? Or is the pup still able to respond to you? My vet told me if the head tremors are mild and the dog is still responsive NOT to give phenobarb. I hope your vet explained the long term effects of Phenobarb to you. I opted not to go that route because my bully did not appear to be in any pain. I had a dog with epilipsy and he xperienced Grand-Mal seizures. I had no choice but to put the dog on Phenobarb. With extreme seizures it can cause brain damage with each seizure the dog has. If you do find what the scientific cause of these head tremors are, please share your findings with the rest of us but please get a second opinion before you go ahead with the Phenobarb as a treatment.
Cindy, Rugby & Tonka
thanks and an update
Thank you so much for responding. I guess the frustrating thing about all this (aside from having to watch our pups suffer) is that there don't seem to be any concrete answers or solutions.
We opted to have the MRI done on our boy. We also tried the spinal tap but the vet couldn't get enough out to be tested, and didn't want to push it, which we agreed with.
The MRI shows possibly a slight infection in the inner ear (probably from the cold) but the vet does not believe this would be sufficient to bring on the tremors he has. He thinks that he may have hydrocephalus. We are waiting for confirmation of this from the radiologist. If that's the case, he said he will still need anti-seizure medication. Based on the comments on this board, we'll probably ask for a minimal dose of Phenobarb, with aims to just use Potassium bromide until any steroid treatment works for the hydrocephalus. I hope this works and this is all the answer. I also hope that our dog won't have to be on anti-seizure medication forever.
To add to this, our girl had another tremor yesterday afternoon. I don't know if we should assume she has the same thing and just start her treatment, or if we have to have her undergo all the same tests. Sigh.
This is really a heart-wrenching problem. These dogs are like our children.
Thanks again - please send any more advice/experiences you have. This board has helped so much. I am so glad we came across it.