Shannon and Winston avatar image

Fear vs Agression - Insight Needed please

Hi Everyone,

As most of you know, I'm going tomorrow to pick up a poor bully girl from a shelter and help transport her in to the care of rescue.  The shelter wanted to put her down on Wednesday because they deemed her "aggressive."  Apparently they had to use a catch pole to get her, and she growled and fought with it and the animal control officer (she didn't bite anyone).  Since being in the shelter she's calmed down a bit, but she still growls at a few people.  That's about the extent of the behavior I know about.

What the shelter has discovered is that she limited vision in one of her eyes, she has a skin infection and she's clearly had puppies at least once.  They estimate she's about 5 years old.  I think it's likely that her behavior and "aggression" is probably more due to fear, anxiety, pain and her limited vision.  And seriously, what dog doesn't freak out when a catch pole is used on them?

They have said that they'll have her in a quiet room for me to meet her on Saturday.  I know that the first meeting with her will be crucial to her future.  I know I need to be calm when I meet her, not approach her directly, but rather allow her to come to me in her own time.  Julie and I plan to have plenty of treats (chicken, cheese, hot dogs, etc) to try to win her over as well as a few toy options for her once she starts to warm up to us.

To that end, I need your help in knowing what to look for in her behavior to help distinguish between fear and aggression as the motivators behind different behaviors.  Do you have any tips on how to help put her at ease if she's anxious?  I'm open to any and all insight and suggestions!

Thank you all so much!

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Shannon and Winston :)

My swimming bully buddy!

My swimming bully buddy!

Céline and Angel Stella's picture

Poor thing

I agree, I imagine the growling is largely from fear and her limited vision.  I'm no expert though.

I can't wait to hear how things go!!

I'm not an expert...however...

Whenever we put on a snug shirt on Gizmo, she totally calms down - Maybe because its snug and secure? not 100% sure -

I'm going to assume you will have a harness with you, and a good leash (not a retractable one)

How far of a drive is it?

I'm willing to guess she is fearful -

Strange sounds, strange smells - possible poor vision

might be the 1st time she's had regular meals in a while.

She is a 'strange dog' and probably unpredictable -  she might not ride well, she might just curl up into your lap.

Good Luck.... you are doing a fantastic thing !

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Last steps taken May 26, 2014 -- Been rolling along ever since . . . . 

Monica-Maude-Gus's picture

That poor little girl

Shannon, I'm certainly no expert but it sounds like you hit it exactly on the head -- of course she's scared.  Her whole life has been turned upside down, she's in a new place with unfamiliar people and she can't see!  I'm sure that a calm demeanor, a loving voice and some yummy treats will help to ease her mind.  Hopefully Lynn will see your post and give you more insight and tips.

Travel safely!

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Monica, Maude and Gus

Vern-Rory-Teresa's picture

Good luck Shannon :)

Good luck Shannon :)

From my reading an actual aggressive dog will go straight at

you with intent to hurt whereas a fearful dog will try and escape you as it warns you to stay away with growling and snapping.  Never punish a dog for growling as that is its way to communicate to you that it is not happy.  If you take that warning away from it then it will go to biting without warning.

Shannon- I think if we go slow and put no pressure on her.  Keep our eyes and body away from her then hopefully she will settle down some.  I am bringing a slip leash so we do not have to go near her neck with a collar.  I am also going to make up a kong tonight so she has something on the trip home- knowing however that a fearful dog will most likely not eat anything we give her.  She may have been one that has had little to no contact with people. 

Hopefully Lynn will see this and offer her advice.  

 

 

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AmyandSophia's picture

Hi Julie, good to see you.

I wish you and Shannon all the best. You ladies are A-Number One in my book. Down right awesome:-)

Hope you and those tall fur kids of yours are all well. Have you watched the Friesian Auction going on at all? Not sure if you are interested, but they have some really nice horses going. Just a heads up if you or someone you know are into them. 

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Amy and Sophia

Love Fresians..... When you board one horse in enough- let me

tell you.  I wish I had your set up.

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AmyandSophia's picture

I will post pics of the stallions my mares will be bred to

This spring. I have 2 TB mares and am for sure breeding, possibly both, to Friesians. I love them! I am bidding on 4 in the auction but I won't win. Just having fun right now!

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Amy and Sophia

AmyandSophia's picture

I can almost assure you it is fear.

She is scared to death. Be mindful that she can't see well: don't move quickly or loudly, use a quiet, calm voice and demeanor, and always give her soft pets, not pats. Don't pat, it could be mistaken for a hit. Give treats when she is calm and you don't think she will lash out at you. She may grab for the treat, keep that in mind and watch your fingers:-)

That's all I can say about it. Hope she is ok. If I had no dogs I would bring her here and let her be loved and happy the rest of her life. 

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Amy and Sophia

not alot of exp, but.......

I have no exp specifically in rescue Bulldogs, but have helped out other dogs and cats in distress many times.  If she is put in a quiet room I would go in and sit down on the floor, maybe have a little bit of conversation between the two of you, but slow calm voices, and slow movements.  After awhile I would break out a strong smelling treat.  You might even consider the lights in the room, if they are really bright, and her vision is impaired on one side, it could really cause horrible shadows all over and create a depth perception problem, if they are dimmed a litte--if possible--it could help.

Poor baby, I pray this goes peacefully and you can get a clear idea on what it takes to make her comfortable.  Everything I read it seems that Fear is the problem, fear and health issues.  I get damn grouchey too when I don't feel good, I am not in a familiar place, my skin itches, etc.... And YES, I bark and growl too!

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Loves and Smooches, Kippa and Mama (Annette)

 

judy wilson's picture

shannon my suggestions.....

i have delt with rescues....their scared...their confused.....dont push this girl...dont hug her...give some treats but i would hold off petting her right away...give her space and time.....when we rescue our first thought is to comfort...i have about 10 stiches becasue of that on my hand,,,,,and now he is the best boy.....talk nice to her...keep it as calm as possible...but let her have space...she needs to know everthing is ok.....using a catch pole has set her back a few steps in trust.....

jsut walk her to your vechile without alot of touching soft talking is good.......

if you have to lift her....place a towel around her neck a big heavy one so she cant bite you.....if your taking her home...a quiet place for a couple of days....not in the middle of a busy family is good.....these guys bounce back pretty fast..once they no its ok......

always protect yourself.............

Judy- should we try and kennel her in the car or just put her in

the back seat with a blanket?

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I'd Kennel if all possible

or sometype of restraint system, 'just incase' like what was just posted ''YOUR SAFETY FIRST"

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Last steps taken May 26, 2014 -- Been rolling along ever since . . . . 

judy wilson's picture

without a good solid history

of knowing how she is in a car....i would crate...you dont want to stop for a potty break and have her get away...hopefully you have a wire crate...this way she will feel more comfortable with you...and you can slip her treats.....and she will be able to hear your voices and get to know you but still feel comfortable.....leave a leash on her when you crate her...DONT ever reach into a crate with an unknown dog.....even here at my grooming shop we leave  a leash on a unknown dog.....hands reaching in can be seen as a threat........she wont choke.......leave a little outside the door again so you wont be reaching all the way in.....

dont over worry yourself....dont over think the situation....just remember to keep yourself safe...and always ask yourself is this the safest way to do it....just go slow....you'll be ok...no shelter is going to let an over agressive dog out  even to a rescue......

and listen have fun...transport is fun....stop for some ice cream.....for all of you!!!!!!!

Shannon and Winston's picture

mmm ice cream!

I have a great frozen yogurt place that Winston and I frequent.  I might get this lady a bowl of vanilla this weekend. :)

Thanks for all your helpful tips.  I'm feeling really good about this pickup. :)

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Shannon and Winston :)

My swimming bully buddy!

My swimming bully buddy!

Deb and MacKenzie and Ester's picture

Crate

If she will crate easily I would crate her.  She may feel safer in a crate and I would also take a blanket to cover it.  You will know if she will or won't crate.  My experience with scared dogs is they will run to the crate for comfort. 

Good luck ladies, whatever you do don't put yourself in a position to get hurt. 

Hope it works out, the poor girl.

Emma's picture

The best of luck Shannon

I soo admire you Shannon. I am no expert so I can't give any useful advise. Just know our thoughts and best wishes are with you. Please let us know how it goes.

Fear and aggression are not different behaviors

Fear is an emotion, aggression is a response/behavior.

Any dog can behave aggressively when threatened. Under the circumstances, sounds like she may have reacted to the catch pole, taken to a strange place with strange people. May just be overwhelmed.

For your own protection, assume that she may act aggressively. Enter the room, nothing in your hands, no eye contact, sit in a chair and relax, read a magazine-anything to keep the pressure off of her. After a few minutes, call her to you, maybe drop a treat on the floor and watch her body language. Is she responsive, does she retreat, come up to you, continue interaction or grab the treat and leave. Remember, a wagging tail is not always an indication of "happy", its a physical response, so watch her whole body. Relax, stay calm, believe me, the dogs respond to our demeanor.

She may be very content with your presence but even if she is, don't overwhelm her. No hugging, don't get in her face. Use a slip lead or a snap collar with the leash already attached.  Be careful loading her in your car, you may have to pick her up. Hopefully, she is crate trained and you can crate her before loading.

Having worked with countless shelter dogs and many clients with aggressive dogs, I always prepare for the worst and pray for the best. Been bit only once by a little 4 lb. Maltese.

I hope all goes well, she may turn out to be just a sweety and her aggressive behavior may be just because she is afraid and/or not feeling well.

 

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Lynn King CPDT-KA