Céline and Angel Stella avatar image

Weight loss

I just came back from the vet's with Stella to have her eye checked (she bonked herself and it's swollen).

While there, we noticed that she had lost more weight.  She was 48 lbs last summer before her pancreatitis (which was a bit too heavy for her).  She lost a bunch of weight during that ordeal.  When we brought her in for another matter at the beginning of December, she was 44 lbs.  Today, she was down to 41 and she's looking skinny to me. I can't figure it out!

She is on a special homemade diet of lean hamburger and potatoes, prescribed by my vet for dogs who have had pancreatitis.  I've tried various vitamin supplements but they have all given her "loosy goosy" so far.  I've got a new powered multivitamine now that I'm trying to integrate very gradually to see if she will tolerate it.  The recipe from the vet does include vitamins but, like I said, so far they've done more harm than good - but I'm working on it.

Her appetite is good, she is getting lots of food, no vomiting, no diarrhea, nice poop.  She is well hydrated.  Her fur is nice, her nails are growing, etc., etc...

Could she just not be getting enough nutrition from the homemade food?  What about adding something like protein powder for some extra protein without the fat (assuming she tolerates it). 

Any suggestions/opinions are welcome!

RobinandLeo's picture

some ideas

She might benefit from a probiotic supplement if she isn't on one already.

Prozyme is a digestive enzyme I have had great success with adding to a dog's food when they don't seem to be getting out of it what they should. It is a powder that is readily accepted.

judy wilson's picture

your diet sucks

i would get on the internet and start ooking for a better diet than all starch...rice and potatoes....you'd lose weight to on that  horrible diet.....i am surprised you dont have rickets really....

your lacking the basic needs of surival in this diet.... go look at honest kitchen they make a food for your dogs problem..and its alot healthier....your starving your dogs body.....go look at honest kitchen....tonight!!!!!!    now!!!!!!

Céline and Angel Stella's picture

I'm starting to see that... Judy another question

My problem is that I just can't go grain free with her.  She has had a pretty grain filled diet her entire life (for better or worse) and to change her to grain free would be just way to jarring to her super delicate system.  This dog reacts badly to EVERYTHING!  So I need to be super careful.

I went back to one of your previsous posts and found that vegan diet.  Do you think that would be a better alternative for her?  I absolutely have to change her diet, I KNOW that!!

 

 

 

Céline and Angel Stella's picture

Also, Judy

Have you heard of this diet?  I know a couple of folks using it here to great results for their dogs who have food allergies.

I like it because you can control the protein source and fat content yourself - SO important for Stella who had pancreatitis last summer.

 

http://www.urbanwolf.cc/default.html

 

Thanks so much for your input.

 

 

CathyandAudrey's picture

Judy-does Stella have chronic or acute pancreatitis?

Here is a great article on a diet for dogs with both.

For acute-the recommendation is to feed this diet for a few weeks while they recover. For chronic- it says you can feed it long term with some adjustments for the lack of calcium.

http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/pancreatitis/

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Cathy and Audrey  

CathyandAudrey's picture

Sorry- meant to ask Celine!

n/m

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Cathy and Audrey  

judy wilson's picture

i have heard of urban wolf and

to honest i have not sat down to compare the two   urban vs honest kitchen.....they both have you add on....and what i suggest is since you know better than me what stella needs in her diet.....compare the two....and decide....i think the urban wolf has more starch....but again i have yet really to compare the two....i have used honest kitchen with my sb crew and was very happy with it...

i will spend a couple of days looking over urban wolf as their has been alot of people asking me what i think.....

but i would do some thing in the next month....for a diet....thats like feeding your girl science diet....yuck

CathyandAudrey's picture

Judy it is dehydrated vegetables

VERY expensive dehydrated vegetables. Well some fruit too. It was $88 for a one month supply-you have to add the fresh meat.

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Cathy and Audrey  

judy wilson's picture

i have not dug into it like i want to.....

so my knowledge is very  little...honest kitchen works good and i  like it.....i only feed raw but...this potatoe and rice diet for stella is no good for long term..   we need to get a better diet going...before she ends up with other health probelms related to poor diet.......

CathyandAudrey's picture

potatoes aren't grains

they are starches. And they don't provide any nutrition for a dog, it's just a filler kibble makers use to keep the kibble together.

That urban wolf food is just dehydrated vegetables. The MAIN source of nutrition from that food is the MEAT YOU have to add to it. Wether you cook it or feed it raw, THAT's where all the nutrition is coming from, not the outrageously expensive dehydrated vegetables they sell.

And yes, super careful is absolutely vitally important.  The goal is to make sure Stella is getting the MOST nutrients out of the food she eats, BUT the other equally vital goal is to make sure her body doesn't have to work so hard to GET that nutrition that it overworks her organs.

A carnivore's body is made to digest meat that is over 70% moisture. When the food does NOT contain moisture, their body is forced to PULL that moisture out of the pancreas and liver. Yes drinking water does replenish that moisture, but when the organs are the ONLY source of moisture, ever, for every meal the body has to digest- it causes those organs to work twice as hard as they were meant to-for some dogs it REALLY takes a toll.

The precise type of meat/vegetable you feed her is just as important as what FORM is that food in and how hard does her body have to work to digest it? Is her pancreas and liver working overtime trying to get the nutrients out of the food?

Dogs have no dietary need for carbohydrates. None. They get their energy from animal fat. NOT vegetable fat-animal fat.  You can not eliminate fat form her diet without causing a LOT of additional stress on her organs. Rememebr-dogs do NOT have the same nutritional requirements as humans. They do not need starchy foods-in  fact starchy foods are the worst most useless and unnatural thing you can feed them.

http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/carbohydrates/ here is a bit form this articel:

Carbohydrates are categorized as monosaccharides (glucose, galactose and fructose), disaccharides (two monosaccharides held together by a glycosidic bond) and polysaccharides, which includes starch, cellulose and glycogen. Disaccharides and polysaccharides must be broken down into monosaccharides for digestion. One form of monosaccharide would be honey. Examples of a disaccharide would be sucrose, maltose and lactose (found in milk). Polysaccharides would include cellulose (the cell walls of plants), starches (such as grains, corn and potatoes) and glycogen. (1)

The pancreas releases amylase, a digestive enzyme to break down starch to maltose. Dogs, unlike omnivores, do not have amylase in their saliva to help break down starches in the mouth. Consequently, they are not as efficient at digesting starches, and have a difficult time with a diet high in most complex carbohydrates, which will stay in the dogs’ digestive tract longer, causing more energy to be used to try and absorb these foods. T (2)

( If Stella is losing weight this could be a contributing factor-her body is working too hard and not getting enough nutrition out of it)

I know you have some very REAL, very valid concerns about Stella's sensitive system. If you look back to what her body has been asked to digest, it COULD be that she struggles more than some dogs do to eat food she just was not built to eat.

My suggestion for you would be to switch her to a raw diet. Meat only. It is the easiest simplest form of food, and the raw state means all the enzymes in the meat are still there and the nutrients are whole and intact.  And it has the moisture that is vital to organ health.

If you are not comfortable with preparing your own, and believe me I fully understand that. I was TERRIFIED to feed Audrey my own raw diet. So I started with frozen pre-made. It does have vegetable in it. It is not cost effective for a company to try to commercialy prepare a meat only raw food.

There are only a few veggies in it, and it would also provide a transition for Stella away from the starchy potatoes. 

At the very least, wean her off the starch. Add some beef liver-just a little bit-cook it lightly if you aren't comfortable feeding it raw. She is not getting much calcium. Crumble some egg shells into her ground meat if you aren't comfortable feeding her raw bone. (raw bone has the perfect ratio of calcium to phosphorous so that is the easiest way to make sure they are getting the perfect amount of calcium).

You could slowly change the way you feed her. It doesn't have to be a drastic overnight change. Give her one different type of protein, like an egg a few times a week. Cooked or raw, but if cooked only very lightly cooked-moisture is crucial!

Some chicken breast. Organ meat is vitamin and mineral rich. Think of it as God's vitamin pill. A little bit, 2 or 3 times a week. 

Proteins have amino acids, every type of protein has a different combo of amino acids. Eggs are the opnly source that has them all. Cooking changes the acid chains. By providing a good variety of protein sources, wether you cook it or feed it raw, you are providing all those amino acids.

If you really want to feed her vegetables, make sure you mash them up good first. 

 

 

 

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Cathy and Audrey  

CathyandAudrey's picture

no post?

I have no idea why the whole body of the post was eliminated?

uggg........can't type all that out again....

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Cathy and Audrey  

onslowsmom's picture

Nice

"your diet sucks Celine"  haha

I hope you figure out what works for her.  No advice just good thoughts.

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judy wilson's picture

i know it was a little rude hahahah but it does suck!!!!!!

were all going to put our heads together and get a healthy diet going......cathy is pretty good on doing some research so i am sure she will be back with some info.....its so hard when you have a sensitive stomach..and need to be careful of what your feeding...but we'll work it out....