Raw Diet
Submitted by maggie6612 on February 13, 2012 - 4:59pmSo I have been doing raw for a little while now and everything is going great, no problems. I have been buying the meats week to week as I got accustomed to it. I have been having a hard time finding affordable meats in my area so I joined a yahoo raw feeding group for Chicago. They had a ton of files about good places to buy in bulk, which I want to do because it is cheaper and I have the space. So that aspect was good, however the people I have talked to on there have confused me! They say that I am not giving enough bone..it should be mainly RMB's, and so far I have been giving Otis boneless chicken or steak and adding in a couple chicken necks to make up the 10%. They say my calcium phosphorus levels will be off with too much muscle meat. Should I be incorporating more bone into his diet? I also found the butchers price list from the group and wanted to post it to see if there is something I should not get, something anybody would recommend etc. Not many boneless meats..I was thinking ground turkey and some ground beef..is ground okay? Is the fat content on the beef okay? Any information is greatly appreciated!
Chicken leg quarters - $.45/lb in 40 lb cases, FRESH (you can specify little ones if you want) Chicken necks - $.31/lb in 40 lb cases, FRESH Chicken Wings - $.99/lb in 40 lb cases, FRESH Chicken gizzards = $.79 in 40 lb case, FRESH Chicken liver = $.69/lb in 5 lb bags, 40# box, FRESHTurkey necks - $.59/lb in 30 lb cases frozen
Turkey gizzards = .79 Available only near Thanksgiving ***
Ground turkey = $.89/lb in two 10 lb tubes, frozen
Turkey wings = $.59/lb in 30 lb cases, frozen
Turkey drumsticks = $.65/lb in 30 lb cases, frozen
Turkey tails - .65 Available only near Thanksgiving ***
Beef Heart - $.80/lb in 55 lb cases frozen whole hearts
Beef Liver - $.59/lb in 60 lb case, frozen
Beef neck bones = $1.20/lb - variable case weight, frozen **When in season**
(not course) Ground Beef, 73% lean = $1.25/lb in six 10# tubes, fresh or frozen
Beef Cheek Meat, 75% Lean = $1.25/lb in 60 lb case, frozen
Beef Cheek Meat, 65% Lean = $1.15/lb in 60 1b case, frozen
Beef kidneys = $.49/lb in 40 lb case, frozen
Pork neck bones = $.55/lb in 30 lb cases, FRESH
Pork neck trim, boneless = $1.05/lb in 60 lb cases, FRESH
Pork hocks = $.55/lb in 30lb case, FRESH Frozen
Tilapia = $.89/lb in 40lb case, each fish individually wrapped, frozen
Whiting = $.99/lb in 50lb case, each fish individually wrapped, frozen
Just how much bone do these people feed??
Do their dogs ever poop? Sounds like really bad advice to me. You are right- bone should not make up more than 10% of their diet. It is NOT RIGHT to feed mainly RMB.
80% of what your dog eats should be muscle meat, and a good portion of that should be red meat.
I HATE that I can't read your post and answer, I will go back and see the rest of your questions-that just took me by surprise!
Too much muscle meat will lead to a calcium/phosphorous imbalance?? That's not right either!
Cathy and Audrey
They must never poop! I was a
They must never poop! I was a bit thrown off too..but I didn't want to dispute about it or anything. I got better info from some people from there later on and they agreed with the roughly 10% amount. If you have a minute I would really appreciate it if you could look over the list I added to the bottom of my post. Will the ground turkey and beef be okay as muscle meat? I am afraid of bones other than chicken necks..am I being ridiculous? If I was to try another does anything on there look good to you? Thanks so much!
it is NOT ridiculous to start slowly!
The necks are working for you so keep at it while you are in the adjusting phase.
I did post again about the list but I would stay away from really large bones.
Some people swear by ground meat. I don't like it because I don't know really what's in it and I don't like the fact that the greatly increased surface area increases it's bacteria load and I don't like that some amino acids start to deteriorate when broken by grinding. Honestly I don't think ANY of these things is going to harm your dog or negatively affect his health-I just like things to be SIMPLE.
here is your list: I will highlight my first choices
Chicken leg quarters - $.45/lb in 40 lb cases, FRESH (you can specify little ones if you want) Chicken necks - $.31/lb in 40 lb cases, FRESH Chicken Wings - $.99/lb in 40 lb cases, FRESH Chicken gizzards = $.79 in 40 lb case, FRESH Chicken liver = $.69/lb in 5 lb bags, 40# box, FRESH
For me it would be NO wings-don't trust those little bones; That's too much chicken liver for one dog (that's all I have). That would make a freezer FULL of chicken liver that should be not more than 5% of their diet. An ounce or so a day needed and a 40 LB box- good grief that's enough for a few years! ; gizzards can be fed as muscle meat BUT 40lbs frozen will have to be thawed, divided then re-frozen. Not fun! I don't feed necks. If you like them, get them.
Turkey necks - $.59/lb in 30 lb cases frozen
Turkey gizzards = .79 Available only near Thanksgiving ***
Ground turkey = $.89/lb in two 10 lb tubes, frozen
Turkey wings = $.59/lb in 30 lb cases, frozen
Turkey drumsticks = $.65/lb in 30 lb cases, frozen
Turkey tails - .65 Available only near Thanksgiving ***
Turkey drumsticks are big bones. If your dog is a raw newbie-hold off on attempting them. (I STILL would not give Audrey turket drumsticks)-Turkey TAILS?? what the heck is a turkey tail???
Beef Heart - $.80/lb in 55 lb cases frozen whole hearts
Beef Liver - $.59/lb in 60 lb case, frozen
Beef neck bones = $1.20/lb - variable case weight, frozen **When in season**
(not course) Ground Beef, 73% lean = $1.25/lb in six 10# tubes, fresh or frozen
Beef Cheek Meat, 75% Lean = $1.25/lb in 60 lb case, frozen
Beef Cheek Meat, 65% Lean = $1.15/lb in 60 1b case, frozen
Beef kidneys = $.49/lb in 40 lb case, frozen
the organs are great but again such LARGE quantities! You only need an ounce or 2 a day, and 60lbs is 960 ounces! That would last Audrey 2.5 years! Beef heart is also good to feed but you do NOT want a 55lb case of frozen heart. You have to thaw the WHOLE thing, cut it up-then re-freeze. OK maybe you wouldn't mind that but my husband used to do it for his fish and he will never do it again! He'll pay $20.lb for filte mignon beofre he'll thaw and cut a 55lb box of beef heart again! Same goes for ANY large case of frozen meat like the cheek meat.
Pork neck bones = $.55/lb in 30 lb cases, FRESH
Pork neck trim, boneless = $1.05/lb in 60 lb cases, FRESH
Pork hocks = $.55/lb in 30lb case, FRESH Frozen
I am not real familiar with any of these-but seems like the boneless neck trim would be good, especially since it's fresh to make it easier to divide and freeze.
Tilapia = $.89/lb in 40lb case, each fish individually wrapped, frozen
Whiting = $.99/lb in 50lb case, each fish individually wrapped, frozen
I'd skip the fish.
Cathy and Audrey
OOPS! Just realized a mistake!
If the gizzards are fresh then that's a YES!
You would STILL NEED boneless red meat. Beef, pork, lamb, rabbit, venison. I can't remember for the life of me how much shoud be red meat vs white but red should be the majority.
Cathy and Audrey
I think I know what they are talking about now!
sorry, I shouldn't have ended my other reply so soon.
Some people feed strictly prey model raw, which is WHOLE pieces. The RMB have a LOT of meat on them. They are uncut-like WHOLE chicken backs, WHOLE chicken quarters, ribs with the meat still on them.
These pieces are approximately 40-50% bone and 50-60% meat. You still need to add boneless meat to it.
But if you are feeding chicken necks-there is little to NO meat on them. They are closer to 80% bone-some fat(skin), very little meat. So you could NOT consider that as a RMB equal to a chicken quarter with the meat on it.
Does that make sense?
I don't give Audrey whole bone-in pieces. I always cut the meat off. I find it easier to keep track of how much bone she is getting overall.
Ialso don't think bulldogs' jaw design is as efficient at ripping/tearing meat off the bone as a long snouted dogs would be. She handles crunching through the bones just fine, but can't really pick the meat off well. So we feed her boneless meat in chunks.
I do not like ground meat. Some people feed it pretty much exclusively. Audrey gets ground turkey occasionally, but it is not a big part of her diet.
Cathy and Audrey
I missed this when I posted
I missed this when I posted you back! I totally agree about bulldogs being special with their jaw design, I would not trust Otis with most of the bone-in meats that others would. It's unfortunate because thats the cheaper way to buy it but I don't feel comfortable with it at this point. So you buy it with bone and cut it off? If you don't mind me asking, is there a reason you don't like ground meats? I have no opinion as I have not fed ground before..and I'd like to know if its worth it before I buy 40 pounds of it. Thanks so much, your advice is great!
we do cut the meat off the bone
we JUST started feeding her chicken again. Her digestive issues seem to be pretty evened out now, and chicken bones are so inexpensive!
We got a pack of thighs. Cut most of the meat off, didnlt go crazy trying to strip it. SOme meat still on there.
Separating it gave is enough bone for 18 days and enough meat for 5-6. Actuall we just ate one of those bags of meat for dinner. :-) Was delicious.
Anyways-when she gets lamb ribs it is easy to cut the meat off. But MAN they are pricey! Rack of lamb is up to $14 or 15 a lb! So she only gets those occasionally. Pork ribs are pretty big, so cutting as much meat off as possiblemake it easier to eat. The only meat she gets whole is rabbit, and she hasn't had one in a LONG time. The store we got them from is over an hour away andwe can never seem to catch them open. She LOVES crunching on rabbit bits!
Cathy and Audrey
I will not get organ from
I will not get organ from them, I can get that cheap and in small proportions by my house. It is too bad that beef cheek meat comes in a frozen block! I will need to keep searching I guess. Does Audrey have tear stains?? I have been battling them over here for a while and I almost think they have gotten worse!? I have heard dogs go through a "detox" period when they adjust to raw..maybe that could be it? I add ACV to his food hoping that will help but so far I have not seen an improvement. Thanks for looking at the list for me!! And answering my questions, its so helpful! :)
yes Audrey has tear stains
and I HATE them!
We have had 3 vest look at her eyes, and all 3 say no physical issues requiring medical intervention. Her problem is her tear ducst do not drain properly internaly, so her eyes constanlty water. Vets say tears are GOOD-would not want to stop them. Draining issues could possibly maybe be tested but it would involve sedation or anesthesia-NOT WORTH IT.
We have tried apple cider vinegar, she always gets filtered water, there is very little that alters them, except for certain foods making them darker. Beef liver, lamb, and when she eats beef for like 3 weeks in a row. Oh, except for Angle's Eyes, which is the antibiotic tylosan. Will NOT use that on her again.
So, we just deal, although I REALLY hate them!
Cathy and Audrey