newtoenglishbulldogs avatar image

Opinions needed...LONG

Hi everyone,

I'm seeking help and opinions again. A few of you know that we live in China. Gemma, our sweet 1 year bulldog, has had food allergy (at least I think it is food) after trying many foods..as many as I could try since I don't have many choices my vet recommended Royal Cannine hypoallergnic. I did try the regular RC and had a terrible outcome. I now understand why he recommened this, it breaks down the proteins so much that the body can't recognize what source it comes from, therefore, there are less allergic reactions. This seems to work fine but it is also $100 for 15 lbs. I was just back to the USA and talked with my local pet store and explained the reaction she was having...terrible ear infections, shedding, licking feet, etc. They recommended Natural Balance sweet potatoe and venison. After lugging back 2 40 lbs bags I started to mix half and half with the Royal Canine. She seemed to like it but after 3 days the feet licking and itching started up again!!! I can't believe it and i'm so frustrated! I gave it to her for 3 days and it seems like a week later she is still having the itching. Is this posibble? How long does it take for the reaction to go away? Now on top of it her eyes seem to have a lot of goop in the am's.

I know if I bring her back to the vet he will probably overtreat her. I need to figure out what to do. Someone on here gave me a receipe for a cooked food diet but a lot of the stuff I couldn't get. If I want to give her chicken and some veggies what is the ratio? I have a feeling the allergy is to some type of grain.

Thanks, any advice is appreciated!!

Lisa and Gemma

CathyandAudrey's picture

My dog can't eat processed food either

First it makes her insanely itchy, then she vomits, so we switched her to a raw diet. She vomits cooked food also. The raw is easy to digest and has such a high moisture content. She also had an ear infection that would not go away. She hasn't been to the vet since switching her to raw close to 2 years ago except for her yearly checkup.

In the processed food it is not the raw ingredients she has a problem with, it is the chemicals and artificial vitamins and preservitives in it. We even tried single ingredient dehydrated food, but it had some vitamins added back and a preservative, and still vomited it up and was itchy-never mind how insanely expensive it was.  She itches from vitamins and supplements, anything with chemicals or preservatives. (don't know how we are going to find glucosamine she can take)

Feeding your dog your own prepared food is NOT overly complicated! Cooking definitely makes it more complex, you have to add back what cooking destroys and you have to find a source of calcium since they can't have cooked bones. I can not help you with cooking, I decided to keep it as simple as possible. Figured why cook if I then have to counter-act the cooking?

Raw has a simple guidline: 80% muscle meat 10% bone and 10% secreting organ. This is not a chiseled in stone ratio that must be acheived at every meal. It is actualy so easy to follow and once you do it a bit and see the amazing changes in your dog you realize you don;t have to make it an exact science.

The label on a dog food bag is not giving you an exact science either on the breakdown of what your dog is getting. It is ALL based on dry, uncooked ingredients, and also makes NO mention of which of those nutrients are actually bioavailable to a dog. Just because it says it has 30% protein, for example, doesn't mean your dog is getting 30% protein. If ANY of that protein is plant based it is not all bioavailable to a dog. IF ANY of that protein is from meat by-products, not all of it will be bioavailable to your dog.

Bioavailable means that the protein (or whatever nutrient) is in a form that your dogs body is able to break down and utilize. If their liver/pancreas can't properly break it down, it is not available to your dog. Plant based proteins and some animal parts, (like feathers, feet, beaks-by=products) can't be properly broken down and most is passed as waste. The dog's liver will sure try though! And after a while having to try so hard puts a strain on their liver and kidneys (how many older dogs have kidney problems? And the first thing the vets say is to reduce the protein because protein is to blame. It's NOT the protein that is the problem, it's the WRONG kind of protein that's the problem. Senior dogs need MORE protein, but it MUST be completely bioavailable)

That's what I LOVE the most about raw food. It is 100% bioavailable, easy to digest, species appropriate, and gives her 100% of the nutrients she needs to not just survive but to THRIVE, delivered in a form that her body can get the MOST nutrition with the LEAST amount of stress on her organs.

I don't feed veggies-mainly because I want it to be as simple and as bioavailable as possible.  I can't help much with them other than to tell you to make sure you cook/smash the veggies first. Dogs do not have the enzyme to break down plant cell walls like an herbivore/omnivore does, so in order to get any nutrients out you have to break down the cell walls for them.

 

 

 

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Cathy and Audrey  

Deb and MacKenzie and Ester's picture

Raw and Parasites

Cathy - I had someone tell me at the last show that her vet sees a lot more parasites in dogs that are fed Raw.  I haven't done that much research but what are your thoughts on this?

I wonder how she would feel if she went to a dog food factory and found rats and mice roaming around.  At least I know what I'm feeding them is the same thing I would be eating.

I suppose if they are throwing raw meat in a yard on the ground then it is likely to have more parasites...but I feed in stainless dishes in the kitchen...food never goes on the floor, unless they drop a piece.

CathyandAudrey's picture

I feed Audrey DE daily

to eliminate intestinal parasites.  It makes sense to me that since there is no cooking to kill anything, if there were parasites in the raw meat the dog would get them.

 More than gross when you consider that's the meat WE eat too-cooked worm eggs=YUM (gag gag gag). I would never even CONSIDER for even half a second switching back to kibble. While sure the rendering process kills any parasites in there, it also kills all the nutrients and sucks out all the vital moisture. I'll stick with raw!

But anyways, that's why I feed de, just in case there are any worms in there. I want to make sure her immune system is optimal to help fight heartworms chemical free.

I do think there are a LOT of raw feeders that do feed outdoors because they feed BIG hunks that the dogs gnaw on. That meat in the grass/dirt would certainly have ample opportunities tio pick up parasites.  Also people that feed venison, rabbits, and other non-commercially prepared meat and stuff not really meant for humans, maybe there are more parasites in that kind of meat.

__________________

Cathy and Audrey  

judy wilson's picture

the only time you have to worry about

bugs and worms in the food is when you feed road kill (yes people do that) or take fresh fish...if your feeding fresh fish freeze for three weeks that goes for vension (deer) fresh caught salmon not farm....

your vet is telling you nonsene  how many times have you nibbled a raw pc of hamburger? we all have....the story i love the best is if you soak pork in soda worms will float to the top.....please..... i dont do de internally and i  have never never had a worm problem....and wilson has been eating raw for 5 years.....

farm animals are very controlled for parasite control.....their almost over wormed...a wormy animal eats more and has not meat.....i wish vets would do some research or just shut up.....

CathyandAudrey's picture

Parasites are everywhere

That's why I feed Audrey DE. I did not mean to imply that I think raw food causes more parasites, just that if there WERE parasites in the meat, it wouldn't be killed by cooking.

I thought about this last night and the thing that bugs me the most (no pun intended!) is that MOST parasites come from soil-via dog feces.  They do not come from meat. 

The other thing that isn't right about this vet's statement is how did she analyze her clients to determine it was the raw food causing more parasites??? And again, What kind of parasites?? The most common canine parasites are NOT food borne.

Most people that give a monthly heartworm pill are also giving a monthly intestinal wormer. The reason the intestinal wormer is there is because parasites are so very common in dogs. Does this vet know for certain that the raw fed dogs were wormed at the same rate as the non-raw fed?

If there is going to be a group of dogs that are least likely to have chemical parasite control it would be the raw fed ones.

I want Audrey's immune system to be as healthy and strong as it can be. I live in the hot humid Southeastern US, which is parasite heaven. There is a very long season of hot humid weather, and we do NOT ever have a ground freeze to kill parasites in the soil. I live in a rural area with all kinds of dogs, cats, and wild critters roaming that are not wormed on a regular basis. I KNOW there is a very good chance Audrey will pick up parasite eggs when she goes out, which is why I feed her the DE. 

I do not think she is going to get parasites from her food, which just happens to be the same food my family eats. The thought that we are all eating cooked worm eggs on a regular basis is too gross to even consider. While I am not saying that it's impossible for there to be any parasite eggs in our meat, (and if there are then Audrey will eat them live) but I think it's not probable.

__________________

Cathy and Audrey  

judy wilson's picture

i would say about 90% of people in your

type of area hot,moist, do give either de or a herb, not becasue of worms and such in the raw meat...but what you said about not getting a deep freeze....hook worms are the worst and most dangerous.....i live where i get a deep freeze....and prefer to use a reciepe of herbs for worm control....thats the other reason i love raw so much...their poop does not sit around moist and draw flies and other things....

de for worm control is the best thing...i use it only for fleas....

i love reading your post and see how much you have come to love feeding raw and all the knowledege you have gotten.....can you remember your first big day! on raw...now look at how much fun your having........

Deb and MacKenzie and Ester's picture

nibbled a raw pc of hamburger

OMG Judy ..... this made me chuckle.  My mom used to eat raw hamburger all the time.  I think one of my recipe books has steak tartar in it, and yet just the thought now days of eating raw hamburger would make most people think you are crazy and are going to die from Ecoli.  I have to tell you I love the taste of a good raw piece of hamburger with a little salt every now and then, LOL!  I suppose I should be eating some of that DE myself. 

But seriously does DE take care of internal parasites or just fleas.  Or what herbs do you feed, just garlic?

I haven't fed either and we typically don't have parasite problems here, infact in 15 years I have never had a dog test positive for worms.  I usually have the vet do a fecal test every couple of years.

Oh...it wasn't my vet but another bulldoggers vet.

Cathy agree --- You can't just say a blanket statement like that, there are way to many equations you have to look at.

Deb and MacKenzie and Ester's picture

Yes .... You can have trouble with Natural Balance

just like any processed food.  I never had good luck with Natural Balance and my sister had Cleo on it and she has miserable on it.  Sorry you lugged back 2 large bags :(.   

I bet Cathy has given you the ratio of raw feeding.  you can feed her meat and bone you buy at the store.

mine eat ground up whole chickens and I chop on the organs, as well as beef and some pork.  I haven't bought dog food for a few months now. 

 

carmiesmommy's picture

Simple home cooked recipe

If you want to do chicken. Boil the chicken. Steam broccoli,cauliflower,carrots, cabbage, squash, kale. Any of these vegetables are good. Maybe start with just two. Put veggies in a food processor and puree well. You can also put chicken in food processor as well so it is ground up nicely. The most important things to add is bone meal powder which you can order on line for calcium or ground up egg shells.Also add a Pet Tab for the rest of vitamins and minerals and an omega 3 fish oil capsule or some canned sardines. Hope this helps. As far as ratio you can start with 2/3 meat and 1/3 veggies with the added supplements. If your dog does not do well on chicken, try ground beef or ground turkey. Good luck. Hope this helps!

newtoenglishbulldogs's picture

Thanks everyone for the

Thanks everyone for the wonderful advice!!! Now at least I have some options as to what to do.