Newbie with questions about going raw
Submitted by BellaStellaBulldog on September 22, 2010 - 6:23pmI have started feeding my bulldog Stella raw food because she seams to have some Allergies. She currently eats NB and I've switched back and fourth between the venison, fish and lamb (think those are the ones)... recently though she's started snubbing it all together so I think it's time to move on.
I heard something a while back about it being bad to feed young bulldogs (especially pups)- though she isn't a pup anymore, too much protien because it causes either their muscles to grow faster than their bones or maybe it was their bones to grow faster than their muscles. I don't know how much truth to that their is as I've not found much info on it but to be safe I went with NB because a friend who shows tells me that it's what she feeds hers.
Anyway, I've decided to try raw feeding her and I'm going to try it out for a couple weeks/months to see if I see any changes.
Today I purchased:
Beef heart
Salmon (raw)
extra lean hamburger
Blue Berries
Spinach
plain oatmeal
fish oil
and some dog vitamins that I plan to crush up to make sure I'm not missing anything.
I'm trying to stay low sodium and also low grain.. though I know I'm not doing too well with adding the oatmeal but I figured she needed fiber of some sort to aid with digestion. I've read some people use cottage cheese or yogurt but I looked at the sodium levels on there and they seamed high per serving... of course, I don't know a whole lot about sodium so I don't know what is high and what is not but I tried to find stuff that looked low to me, haha.
I also have some beef liver in my freezer, I tried some of it earlier in the week to see if she liked it and she absolutely hated it. She went crazy for the bananas and blue berries that I tried at the time but snubed her nose at the beef liver. I'm thinking about blending it up with some of my other ingredients to hopefully hide it so that I don't waste it. I hope she doesn't snub her nose at the hamburger and beef heart. I know she won't snub her nose at the fish because I gave her a spoonful of tuna out of a can (in water) last night and she thought that was the greatest thing she's ever eated. lol. I then went online to see if it was good for dogs and found out it was not because of the sodium and mercury so I felt terrible and that's why I bought her the salmon.
Does anyone have any ideas for me? I'd love to hear what other raw-feeders are doing.
Thank you!
I am fairly new to raw,
Kofi has been on it for three months.
One thing I know, do NOT feed raw salmon. Pacific salmon often carry a microbe that can kill dogs. It is recommended to avoid all raw salmon to be safe.
When starting out feed one type (usually chicken) for the first week.
There are raw feeders here that can be very helpful, but before starting it is really good to do some homework to avoid getting off to a bad start.
I always recommend the book, Raw Dog Food, Make it Easy For You and Your Dog, by Carina Beth MacDonald.
There are things that should be added if you are not feeding bones, and although raw feeding is not an exact science, there are certain rules that should be followed, i.e, raw eggs with shell added if no bones are given.
Also, veggies and fruit should be pulverized to make the nutrients available to our guys. I feed the raw veggies the fiber.
If your dog is allergic to chicken in commercial dog food, it may be that raw chicken will not be a problem.
Just a few tips, but hope you find some good raw reading to help you off to a positive start.
I hope things turn out well
Raw beef liver
I would mix about 20% with the hamburger. I also always add a garlic clove or two to Kofi's mixture. She loves chicken liver and gets that along with beef liver so far for her organ meats. Read up on the proportions of organ meat to the other.
Chicken
Thanks for the advice, I've been staying away from chicken for the salamonela issue. I did buy eggs but I wasn't sure whether I was going to give those to her raw or not. I've heard that garlic is poisonous to dogs, It was on a list of poisonous foods along with grapes and a few other things I didn't know were toxic.
Thanks with the info on the beef liver too! :)
The more you read, the more you
will find differing views. I then just take what works for me and Kofi.
All the raw books I have read feed raw chicken, though. Dogs are physiologically equipped to deal with a much heavier bacteria load than humans. Good kitchen hygiene is surely a must when feeding raw.
Whether or not to feed garlic is controversial. I should have clarified that. Many raw feeders do feed it, and since Kofi loves it, I have feed it to her. Actually, I gave her garlic before feeding raw, but never onions.
You will find what works best for you.
garlic is only poisonous
if they eat a LOT, like a whole container full. You need to crush it fresh to get the benefits.
You don't need to worry about salmonella with chicken anymore than any other meat.
Cathy and Audrey
Garlic and Chicken
Thank you both for clearing that up. I see I have a lot to learn and definitely need to buy a book,lol.
I would start with
chicken only. There is no need to add any vegetable matter to a carnivorous diet. Not saying it's harmful to do so, it's just not necessary. Their bodies are designed to get all the nutrition it needs from animal bodies. Definitely skip the oatmeal. That does have the potential to cause problems and is absolutely useless for a dog. Once your dog has gotten used to the chicken, then you can add some other meats, organs, your fish oil.
You will need to double check this, but I think that cooked salmon is ok, but not raw.
There is a lot of info here about raw, quite a few people have switched, so read read read all you can.
Cathy and Audrey
Carnivore
I know that many people feed their raw diet eaters pure meat but without starting any sort of argument I'd like to say that I'm not sure it's right for us. Since the modern Bulldog is pretty much as man-made as any dog breed can get, (I mean, they can't even birth their own puppies or breed without medical/surgical intervention.) So I feel that they may have different nutritional needs than the wild wolfs that all dogs originally decended from. I also know that I've seen plenty of dogs eat grass or even blue berries (that's why I decided to use those) from bushes at my parents old house. I've been told all of my life that the grass is to aid in digestion so maybe they do have some animal instinct in there that teaches them they need something extra. As for the blue berries, I don't know if they aid in digestion or if my parents dogs just liked them, but I do know that Stella absolutely loves them and I looked up several beneficial qualities in them. When I put the blue berries in with the liver and banana's she ate the blue berries first and then came back an hour later and ate the bannans and refused to touch the liver or any of the hard food that it was touching. So I feel she sorta chose fruit over meat and if she was purely carnivorous she would have chose the liver.
But this is my own opinion. I'm not a professional nor an expert and I'm very new to the raw thing so I know I don't have a whole lot of scientific proof or experiential evidence to go off of. Needless to say, I feel that a balance between plant and meat is right for us. I don't think a strictly carnivorous diet is wrong either, but I feel more comfortable offering more of a variety. I'm going to offer them seperately from now on though.. with meat in the morning and fruit/vegitable in the evening. I've read that they digest differently and that it's harder on their system to digest together. If at any point Stella starts refusing the fruits and veggies I'll stop offering them.
I appreciate your post though and I hope you don't think poorly of me for not taking your advice.
Thanks for telling me about the Salmon also, I'd hate for it to go to waste and I'm not big on fish myself,lol.
just be careful!
yes bulldogs are "mandmade", but man does not have the capabilites to alter a dog physiologically. Bulldogs are still canines, and canines are still carnivores. You can't make a carnivore NOT a carnivore. You can't alter your dog's digestive system to be omnivorous. Dogs can not digest plants. It just passes through their body. You can not produce for them the enzymes necessary to get nutrients out of plants. You have to smash it to break down the cell walls first in order for them to get ANY nutrients out of them, and since dogs have such a fast digestive process, they don't get a whole lot out of them. Again, it's not going to hurt them, unless you give too much in place of meat that they NEED.
Just because an animal chooses to eat something does NOT mean it's healthy for them. I had 2 dogs that LOVED cardboard toilet paper rolls. Sure they CAN and WILL eat just about anything, and sweet is very often chosen first. It tastes good. And of course they will have certain meats they like and ones they don't like. It is actually fairly common for dogs to not like raw beef liver. Like you said, our domestic canines are ALL man-manipulated, and they are dependant on their owners to feed them properly. Kind of like children. Many would skip the green beans and go straight for the cookies if given a choice. Many people chew on fresh pine needles, or pieces of hay. That does NOT mean pine needles or hay need to be a part of a human diet. There is a tremendous difference in being nutritionally necessary and simply edible.
If you are going to feed your dog fresh food, you will have to make sure you are meeting it's nutritional requirements. It is NOT complicated! They are carnivores. If you decide to add plants to the mix, you are going to have to be very careful. It definitley complicates things. Just don't feed too many plants.
Do NOT feed your dog according to the nutritional requirements of humans. So many people mistakenly believe that if it's good for them, it's good for their dog too. NOT TRUE!
For example, dogs have NO dietary need for carbohydrates. None. Humans would die without them. Dogs get fiber from bone. Humans get fiber from plants (humans are omnivorous). Dogs do not have ANY digestive enzymes in their saliva. Human digestion begins in the mouth, where the enzymes in their saliva begins to break down food. (Again, there are differences you can not control or manipulate in any way between a carnivore and an omnivore).
PLEASE make sure you research first.
Cathy and Audrey
Thank you
I've started researching what you've said and for the most part, the info I've found, is in line with what you've said.
So here is my question, tonight I made my dog a raw meal and after reading your advice I was easy on the veggies/fruits. I kept them in though thinking maybe they'd add a little flavor that Stella might like better than the regular meat.
I put 1/2 a lb of ground beef, 8 slices of beef heart, 5 blue berries and 10 spinach leafs and 1 dog vitamin. This completely filled up my blender so it was a lot of meat for sure. I blended it and then gave it to both my bulldog and Lab and they thought that was the greatest thing on earth. - I wonder if the veggies/fruits made me any difference in flavor or if maybe they just like beef heart or ground beef more than liver.
So you normally feed bone too? I've not read a whole lot about that. Are there certain bones that will be dangerous? I've heard of bones spintering and killing dogs. Is that just cooked bones?
Also, since I'm trying to stay away from salt, I read that beef and pork are the least salty meats. Is there a reason you prefer chicken or is there a reason you don't like beef?
Thanks again!
Laura
Laura, please research
carefully before feeding raw.
It is so commendable that you are wanting to bring the best possible health to your girl.
There are so many little aspects that we can not cover in these posts.
We can help, but you must understand the basics of raw feeding. There is the RPD which is quite different from the BARF.
The beef and ratio of beef heart can cause diarrhea, there is a ratio of beef to organ.
I just want you to be informed before you embark on this wonderful way to feed.
Salt??? No need to worry if you are feeding balanced raw.
RPD?
Okay I see a BARF website which I'll definitely study but what is RPD?
I think tomorrow I'll just mix what I have made (the rest) in with their NB and that will be that until I read up a bit more. Thanks Carol!
This site is wonderful
http://preymodelraw.com/how-to-get-started/
Good girl!
I'm afraid that since you started with beef and organ meat that your girl will have the runs big time.
Bone to meat ratio is important. The book I recommended is really helpful and is a constant reference source to me.
Raw works, but many people have problems because they are just confused and there are so few mentors to give direction, i.e. vets or holistic vets.
Do the homework girl, you won't be sorry!
excellent link Carol!
thanks!
Cathy and Audrey
DON"T mix kibble and raw together!
kibble slows down a dog's digestion, forcing the raw meat to stay in their longer than it should. You could freeze what you have made for later.
Cathy and Audrey
Kibble -too late :(
I just now read this so unfortunantly I already fed her the two mixed together. But won't do it again. That's probalby the reason she's had gas so incredibly bad then huh?