RedNBlack1 avatar image

Lots of questions..

I have a few questions.. Let me start with my story.. Fell free to skip to bottom is to much information..

My Bella (english bull) just had a litter of 9 two weeks ago this thursday coming up.  We have had so many issues that have been resolved with many, many hours of research and calling my vets and the breeder who did the insemination (they must hate my voice by now lol) anyhow was hoping to find some answers here first before they stop answering my phone calls :)  Well this is Bella's first litter witch I hear is the hardest.  She is a very good mom, always wanting to be with her babies. But of course can not be as I have been told by just about everyone (except this last vet I just went to) She started to get really picky with her food towards the last four days or so of her pregnancy.  So I started to make her rice, chicken and broccoli to entice her to eat.  That got mixed into her puppy kibble with the Puppy Gold to insure she had plenty of milk for the pups.  Let me back up a little and let you know that Bella is one of the most active bulldogs I have ever encountered.  She had not a ounce of fat on her.  I felt it helped with her breathing and over all health to keep her at a healthy weight.  When I took her to get inseminated the breeder and I felt it was good she was not over weight at all so when she was in fact pregnant she would not gain to much weight.  I increased her food a week or so sooner then I should have because Bella was a exception to the rule I thought as she had no fat on her.  She got bigger and bigger and I fed her more and more.  She had her c section at 60 days as directed by vet and the breeder.  When she came out of the c section she looked like a anorexic bulldog.  I almost fainted, those 9 pups were all very large and very healthy.  They took all the food she was eating I suppose. Since she got home I thought I would just pump her up with food.. nope she barely ate enough for her self let alone 9 pups to eat from her.  She was having kinda like panic attacks the first few days, panting very hard and gasping for air.  The gasping for air was only when it got really bad.  We had to calm her down by telling her "good Bella, calm down honey) over and over.  I called the breeder and the vet both said this was normal she's just in pain from the c section and wants the pups.  The breeder did happen to mention "Im surprised she is acting this bad in her own home"... that got me thinking it was the other dogs being in the same room ( we have a small place, only two rooms) so I moved her in the other room and the "panic attacks" stopped.  Even Though the other dogs were in the room they were at a distance from her by the way.  Still the eating was not good, better but not good and milk was drying up as well.  I was worrying to much so I took her to the local vet as the ones I was using are in Riverside and San Diego.  The  local vet suggested a shot to induce milk production.  Also a crap load of blood work and a IV for dehydration..  He also went on to tell me that there is not such thing as a vet that specializes in bulldogs, I should have fed her a calcium supplement during pregnancy, they don't almost always need c sections, and the mom can be alone with the puppies.  He said that specializing in bulldogs was like him saying "Im asian and I specialize in asians" I told him I would wait on the blood work because I was going to have to pull out of my retirement to pay $500 for all he wanted to do.  And he just did not sound like he had had Bella's best interest in mind just my pocket book...  All I wanted for her was something to make her eat more even if it meant the pups could not drink from her anymore (more on that in a few)  I went to this Global Pet Food Outlet that I have been going to for all her stuff and they suggested Nutri-Cal and to go back to her old kibble Royal Canine and not Royal Canine Puppy, baby puppy, and all the different wet foods I was trying to entice her with.  Some brand names like Tiki Dog, Eukanuba, and one other I cant remember the name some were damn near $4 each...  Also they made a small suggestion to give her the wet food separate.  This worked great kinda.. she started eating again the wet food was mixed with water and Puppy Gold and Show Stopper vitamins to make sure she was getting enough nutrition, I was just so worried about her.  I think in this whole process she had just gotten spoiled because she ate fine the first couple days then she started just eating the dang wet food :-/ and very little dry.  Now Im waiting her out on the wet to make sure she eats the dry!  Now back to the my question and to the I don't care about the pups having enough milk.  I tried feeding the pups with the Puppy Gold and they did not like it spit it put constently.  So I found a recipe on line.  It is as follows: 

(BTW I used half goats milk Meyenberg evaporated and half Meyenberg Goats Milk regular) and Whole goats milk yogurt not cows.  This recipe is from http://leerburg.com/bottlefeeding.htm 

  1. 10 oz. of canned evaporated milk OR whle goat's milk (not pasteurized cow's milk - this will cause scowers - dogs cannot drink normal cow's milk. Dogs cannot drink 1%, 2%, Skim, or Whole milk.) Whole goat's milk is by far the best to use. Walmart sells both evaporated milk, whole goat's milk and evaporated goats milk. Make sure you are using EITHER evaporated milk OR whole goat's milk. Do NOT use sweetened condensed milk! 

  2. 3 oz. sterilized water (baby water OR boiled water that is then cooled). This is NOT needed if using whole goat's milk.

  3. 1 raw egg yolk.

  4. 1 cup of whole yogurt (avoid skim or fat free if at all possible).

  5. 1/2 Tsp Karo Syrup or Corn Syrup (NOT HONEY!)

    ****If you cannot find Karo or Corn syrup where you live, you can do a Google search for “substitute for Karo syrup” and get some options.****

When I Googled “substitute for Karo syrup" here is what I came up with- 1 c Karo can be subbed with 1 c white sugar and 1/4 c hot water (cook it to dissolve in the water best you can get it to. Depending on the recipe, if you need the sugar to be completely dissolved you might need to add a bit more water).

 The pups have diarrhea and look like there little bootees hurt tiny amount of blood on some :(  I think I might have answered my own question maybe.. the goats milk in pasteurized whole goats milk.. does this matter?  Mom has barley any milk so Im mom for now.  Any suggestions?  Where do they sell unpasteurized goats milk?

Jacinda and the bullies's picture

I'm not a breeder but

I would not go back to that last Vet.

Anyway, you need to feed her whatever you can to make her eat. She has to eat alot to feed 9 puppies. Cook chicken and rice for her if that's what she will eat or whatever it takes. Also give her the puppy gold. The panting is probably from a lack of calcium. A lot of breeders use esbilac for puppies. If the puppies have diarrhea, you may be over feeding them.

omegabulldogs's picture

Bulldogs are hard

Not only is this Bella's first litter but I assume your first litter, too? Your best resource is either the person who owns the male or perhaps the person you purchased your girl from. I am assuming your Riverside vet is Dr. Butchko? And, yes, I would call him a Bulldog specialist. As to your questions if you would like to email me I will give you my phone number and be glad to give you any assistance that I can.

__________________

Miriam

omegabulldogs@aol.com

RedNBlack1's picture

yes to all above lol..

Yes my first litter.  Yes Butchko.  And yes I would call him a a bulldog specialist as well.. the local vet was being a butt head He just wanted my money :-/ The guy who I used for the stud have been VERY helpful indeed.  Any time I have a question he helps me out.  Its sam from Sams bulldogs.  But I know it never hurts to get as much information as possible:)  Yes will keep that email thanks!  U might regret it cuz I am a worry wart and ask a lot of questions.. 

RedNBlack1's picture

ya was not planning on going

ya was not planning on going back to him at all.  He seemed like he was made I did not c section Bella there or something... She seems to like wet food some of the time...  She eats what ever I make once then turns her nose up at it the second time..  I can go back to the chicken and rice again and see how that works again...  Do you think organic would be better?  When I made it the first time I used organic because of developing pups inside of her.. I just bought a couple of cans of that Esbilac its like $9!   The first ingredient in that is water??  Is there a powdered form with the goats milk I wonder...

Feeding...

I fed raw blend (Oma's Pride -- there are many brands) starting about a week before delivery and until weaning--have had no problems with eating and no need for calcium supplements because it contains the ground up bones, too.  What I do is feed 3 meals of the raw blend and alternate with rice pudding and cottage cheese.  I feed the mother about 6 times a day after nursing (alternating--meat one meal, rice pudding next, meat next meal, cottage cheese next meal, etc.).  You can get powdered goats milk to supplement the puppies on line from KV Vet and perhaps your local feed store and even Petsmart and Petco might carry it--I know they carry the canned goat milk esbilac--pricey though.  The mother probably wasn't relaxed with the puppies while there were other dogs around--it's best for them to have a quiet place alone for the first 2-3 weeks.  Good luck!

RedNBlack1's picture

She broke out in hives with

She broke out in hives with cottage cheese.  I found the powdered goats Esbilac at that Global Pet Food Outlet.  Perhaps Alternating the food like that is the key..  She seems to be wanting food licking her shops and such but not what I give her..  She seems to be liking the wet food but just not the same wet food twice in a row lol..  Perhaps I can give her some goats milk?  Or will I be heading her into the runs :-/  I will look up that raw blend stuff right now thanks! 

...forgot....diarrhea

They may be overeating, so cut back some on the formula.  Also, gently wash and dry their butts and apply Desitin...will heal quickly.

RedNBlack1's picture

I thinking over eating as

I thinking over eating as well they are pigs!  This is a amazing experience even though a lot of wrk.. they will be two weeks old this thursday and they just started to open there eyes.  I almost cried!  One is almost walking and some are even on the road to being potty trained.  I want to keep them all!:)