Coopers consult with orthopedic vet
Submitted by tiffscooper on September 13, 2011 - 10:08pmHi everyone I posted last week about Cooper possibly having a ccl tear in his left hind leg. Well we went today to an orthopedic vet and had some bad news ( I am still in shock) . She claims he is actually lame in both rear legs and needs surgery on both legs. He was limping on his left hind leg and she said the right leg is actually worse. She said the xrays didn't show much but while feeling them she said they both need surgery, she then started telling us about the surgery options she prefers Tta and gave us an estimate for 1 leg and for 2 legs. I can't imagine having both done at once but I also can't imagine going through 4 months of healing and then bringing him right back in for another surgery? Has anyone ever had 2 done at once? I called my regular vet and she didn't get the report yet but kept saying did you think it ruptured since Wed. Because she had not noticed anything in his right leg? I am devastated but he's only 2 1/2 and I want to do what's best for him. Thanks for any thoughts.
2nd opinion
She may be right, she may be wrong.......
How about a 2nd opinion with a vet who sees a lot of Bulldogs? Bulldogs have a different built than most dogs, and this may result in a different diagnosis.
Sometimes I doubt that all vets take the wellbeing of a dog over the wellbeing of their financial position......
Ineke
Ineke
Agree with Ineke...
It's definitely wise to seek an orthopedic surgeon who has performed the surgery on many Bulldogs. Most vets want to do their own x-rays, but you can ask the vet you saw to forward the x-rays Cooper had to the one you go to for 2nd opinion. An orthopedic surgeon can see if there is an issue just by the gait of the dog even before manipulating or x-ray. The cruciate ligament doesn't show on the x-ray. I know someone who had TTA surgery on both legs of a show Chessie who just months later finished his Championship. The recovery from TTA is very fast, and while he won't be allowed to run and jump for a while, Cooper will be able to go potty when you get him home. Good luck deciding and good luck with Cooper's surgery(s).
Hi Micki
My last post I meant to respond to Ineke. But I wanted to ask if you have ever heard of a bulldog having both done at once. The surgeon told me the recovery time was 4 months and doing both at once means double chance odcomplications , longer anesthesia etc... I mentioned to my reg vet the surgeon you recommended she thought he as only a general practitioner and she would feel better with a surgeon but I personally would rather see anyone who sees alot of bulldogs period...thanks again!!!
Difficult...
....to be you right now-- with your questions and worries. You just have to sort through all the information you're finding and hope you make the right decision for Cooper. Sorry, I don't know of a Bulldog that had both done at once. Don't be afraid of 4 months recovery time--with TTA he will be going potty without assistance once you get him home, and though he won't be allowed to run and jump on and off the couch for a few months, the recovery with TTA is not awful. The surgeon I referred you to specializes in the TTA procedure, but does do the conventional surgery as well, if it is appropriate. Good luck.
Thanks I agree however,
I am having a hard time due to my area , finding an orthopedic surgeon that sees alot of bulldogs . I called a vet office today that was on the homepage and explained my situation. The receptionist said they have a large amount of bulldog patients but she then told me she never heard of cruciate ligament problems and was not sure if the vets there deal with them? I am frustrated I wish there was more options. I appreciateyour response thanks Tiffany
my boy had 2 in a row done
it was not the same procedure. It was Luxating patella. Left leg was done at 13 months. Right leg was deemed fine at that time. 8 weeks after the first surgery the right leg went (I think a grade 3) so he went right back into surgery. It was a long rehab. I bought a stroller so I could put it in my car and take him all over the place so he would have mental stimulation and would not get depressed. It was a good investment. He went on later to require another surgery on the left side again. Back in the stroller! I am glad I had the stroller to make it a bit easier for him.
So sorry he had to go through 3 surgeries
But I am happy that he is doing well today. I just wish we could explain to them what is happening to them and why. I think the surgeries are going to be very hard on me. Both of our bulldogs sleep with my husband and I and it's going to be quite an adjustment. The stroller was a great idea my husband loved it!!! Thank you!
Beasley tore his CCL in both
Beasley tore his CCL in both hind legs, which was such a shock when we first heard. Our orthopedic surgeon he does not reccomend having both done because of the recovery involved, it's too much on them. We had the TTA method done in July and we were beyond worried! The first two weeks were the toughest, but it was much better after that. He had he first post-opt appointment last week and the bone has healed beautifully-thank goodness! He has a clean bill of health in that leg. We will be scheduling his other leg in January. I wasn't sure what to expect when we first brought his home, but he was able to go potty on his own, with the slight help of the walk-about. He did so well and his leg was stronger every day. The recovery is supposed to be much easier with the TTA method. Feel free to ask any questions. I had so many in the beginning!
Thanks I am feeling better...
Reading about your experience makes me have hope on a better recovery than what I have been envisioning thus far. I may have to take you up on a few questions because my mind is going a mile a minute:) thanks again
One at a time
Lola has both knees worked on and I would recommend one at a time. I am not sure which one is worse but look at which leg has the most muscle mass and have the other leg done. I relize its not the most cash friendly option but think of it as yourself and you walked on all fours, would you rather have three legs or 2 arms to try and get around.. The recoverys for TTA and TPLO which I got is really harder on us then them. The point of the newer surgeries is to get the pain away right away and speed up the recovery. its a hit to your finances for sure but I will tell you this.. Lola just finished up her last surgery in Aug and her attitude and life is back more than ever.. seeing those bulldog zoomies come back was worth every penny..
I think I agree with one at a time
I was worried about having to go back in after he was finally healed for round 2 but I do agree it would probably be better for Cooper I can't imagine having both back legs done at once especially now that I have heard others opinions. Thanks again!!!
3 knee surgeries
My youngest bully Ethel had the right knee done for luxating patella at 18 months.....at that time the surgeon said that she had the same problem with the left knee and the added strain on it during her recovery might blow it out. Sure enough after the surgery and recovery she started limping on the left one. 4 months after the first surgery she had the left one done. Believe or not 9 months after that she ruptured her ACL (anterior Cruciate Ligament). Bullies are so rough and tumble! The recovery from the ACL surgery seemed to harder than the others. For all we had a butt-sling to help her potty for a few days and what I found to be the best for us was a corral right in the family room. That way she was confined but not going nutso in her crate. She was with everyone and she could get up walk two or three steps and turn around. We had her food and water dish in there along with a plush bed all her toys. Happy to say that she recovered without any complications. The week before her last surergy we brought a mated pair of 6 yrs old bullies that our breeder had rescued from very bad owners into our home. What a wild ride! They all love each other and I am very glad I had Ethels legs done. I couldn't imagine her being in pain for the rest of her life! Our surgeon was super and had bully experience. He trained orthopeadically on the University of Georgia bulldogs.....who would have thought to find him near San Diego, CA! Good Luck and keep us posted! Shannon
here is a sideways picture of Ethel in her corral.
Thanks Shannon,
I really appreciate your response . Poor Ethel I am glad after 3 surgeries she's feeling much better. This may be a dumb question but my reg vet nor the 1st orthopedic surgeon never mentioned Coopers knees. How do they know if it's a ccl tear or luxating patella? We actually made an appointment for a 2nd opinion at an orthopedic surgeon office that was recommended by someone on this board. We go on the 26th. I am going to have alot more questions ready this time. Thanks again Tiffany
BTW , I think the coral is the way to go also, I have been sleeping with him on the living room floor now, so that will not be too shocking for him( he usually sleep in bed with my husband, myself and our 2nd bully. I know tight quarters :)!!!!!!
Thanks Shannon,
I really appreciate your response . Poor Ethel I am glad after 3 surgeries she's feeling much better. This may be a dumb question but my reg vet nor the 1st orthopedic surgeon never mentioned Coopers knees. How do they know if it's a ccl tear or luxating patella? We actually made an appointment for a 2nd opinion at an orthopedic surgeon office that was recommended by someone on this board. We go on the 26th. I am going to have alot more questions ready this time. Thanks again Tiffany
BTW , I think the coral is the way to go also, I have been sleeping with him on the living room floor now, so that will not be too shocking for him( he usually sleep in bed with my husband, myself and our 2nd bully. I know tight quarters :)!!!!!!
Luxating Patella
Vets can tell by manipulation about the patella, and it can be seen on x-ray. Over the last few years, I've had my Bulldogs' patellas examined and they have OFA certification. It is possible to have a luxating patella and torn cruciate, two separate issues, but they could be taken care of one after the other in surgery. The patella is like a knee cap--completely different issue from the cruciate ligament. Interesting stuff and once you get involved with having a surgery like this, you learn a lot. Also, dogs with luxating patella surgery should not be shown, but there is no problem with having cruciate repair. Best wishes.
Canine Knee Illustration
Here are the Canine Knee parts. As you can see the Patella is bone and what is considered the knee cap. Luxiating Patella is where the knee cap does not sit into the groove of the bone and it slips out of that groove or dislocates as the knee is bent. Typically the groove is not deep enough, so in Patella surgery they grind the bone down to create a groove for the Patella to sit in
You can also see that dogs ligaments are CCL's not ACL (which is what humans have). The Caudal or Cranial Cruciate Ligament are the ones that typically rupture. Ligaments do not show in an xray. They only way to tell the severity of a ligament tear is to open up the knee and look. Experienced vets can manipulate the knee and usually determine if there is at least looseness in the knee which would indicate a tear or rupture. Vets can aslo typically tell if there is Luxiating Patella just by feeling the knee if it is slipping and not staying in the groove. The Luxiating Patella will show in an xray because it is bone.