Bulldogs World

I could not advertise them or post pictures of her pregnant. However, they also told me I could ask health questions relating to her, the pregnancy or the pups. So when I was told that I stopped posting. But if someone else posts talking about it, I don't understand why I'm not allowed to respond. - Oh well. I don't care. It's not that big of a deal to me. I have certainly not advertised them and that was never my intent. I'll answer questions from now on only if they are privately messaged or e-mailed to me.

I am extremely glad that Laura has decided to join us and share her beautiful girl.

That being said, I do not think it fair to say that those of us who observe the rules are "bad apples" and uncaring.

That kind of statement is so divisive and hurtful to those of us that love and treasure one another here at BDW.

I, for one, love this board, and it has given me so much more than just Bulldog help. The rules are made for a reason though and I respect that. We don't know each other, few on the board have ever met each other in person. We don't know who is who, nor what the true intention behind their posts may or may not be. So, the rules are for the safety and well being of all, because of the "bad apples" that can come to this site and ruin it for the rest of us! How do you know that Laura, (and NO I don't think this personally about this lady), but how do you know she didn't tell everyone the delivery date and number of pups in hopes of finding buyers for them on this board. You don't know that she DIDN'T intend to have that happen, and unfortunately the people in charge of moderating this board don't know if that is the intent either. So the rules state that birth announcements, unless from an approved breeder, are not allowed. That is for the good of the whole, not the ruin of the few who choose to not read the rules FIRST before posting information that isn't allowed:-) 

This board has grown and done well the past few months. I know a lot of folks aren't as enchanted as they used to be with everything that has happened, but if folks would be true to the intent behind this forum to begin with, maybe there wouldn't have been such things going on to have made others leave. It doesn't mean we wanted them to go, they made that choice on their own. So when you bring up things you may not know everything about as far as behind the scenes and what caused what, be careful what you say:-) It may not be what you think!

I like you and George...So I hope your post was not directed at me:-) If it was, I am sorry you feel this way. 

There is a particular bulldog board without rules where any byb, "rare color" breeder etc... yahoo can and do post their litters and stud ads all day long. Now, if you were new to the breed and looking for info and stumbled on their board, you may end up being mis educated or even end up buying a rare blue Bulldog for $6,000. The idiot that runs the site gives horrible advice such as recommended breeding on the first heat and putting down pups born with backwards feet( they turn around in a few weeks). People I guess have the belief he knows what he is doing because he runs a site.

I hope you Laura or anyone else don't take take offense to the rules or take them personal.

I'm posting on behalf of Cathy and the owners as well since I appear to be the first to see this.

New posters are told to read the forum rules carefully, especially when their app mentions anything about medical help for a pregnant bitch or litter.  If they choose not to, violations will be edited or deleted.  The old owner never wanted to turn away people that needed medical help, however, these people should also be talking to their mentors.

 The ONLY thing non listed breeders are allowed to post are medical/health questions either for mom or babies when they arrive. Anything else is in violation of the rules.  If someone posts and asks about an upcoming litter from a non listed breeder who has been asking for medical advise, it will be deleted. I suggest people check the breeders list prior to making a post.  If it's missed (we can't be on line 24/7) and until it is caught and removed, the person should not be replying if they aren't on the list.

Rules have been in place for 10 yrs w/o change.

If someone is not sure if a post they want to make is in violation, I urge them to private message Cathy or myself prior to posting, otherwise, if the post is in violation, it will be removed.

We get tired of fighting the fight and trying to educate. I'm still here but my posts are seldom commented on and I post very little any more. I do read daily and I do look at a good majority of the photos but I seldom have time to respond. I'm no expert, no one is,  but I've been involved with my family since I was born with dog breeding, showing, grooming, etc. My father was a licensed professional handler in the 70's. I showed as Jr. handler and I've put conformation and obedience titles on dogs. I loved the horses more growing up so I concentrated on that industry and showed, trained, bred/raised horses for 30 years.

Heck I'm not sure anyone on this board even knows I had a litter 4 months ago. I barely had time to post photos. I also would not have come to this board for information about when to take the puppies. Those questions need to be asked of your mentor/s or people you know and trust, not strangers.

I'm all for the wonderful pet owners on the site and their love for the breed. I'm a pet owner as well, my dogs are my kids. But I'm also dedicated to the welfair and future of this breed. I'm dedicated to the reputable breeder that devotes endless hours to this breed. There are people out there who would love to see the Bulldog breed as we know it become extinct. I couldn't imagine having that right taken away from me. I love this breed way too much. You can't educate unless people are receptive.

There are other forums that the breeders, hobby breeders, exhibitors frequent when they have a need to ask important questions and want some interesting discussion. Like the discussion a while back involving the Breed Standard. Most people have no interest in those type of discussions.

There has always been "Life" going on, it didn't just start happening this year. So why didn't it affect the board for the past 10 years when David owned the forum? In the 7 years that I've been coming to the forum I've seen many, many people come and go and some come back, but there was always several pages in a day to go through. Infact it was difficult to keep up. Not so anymore.

e-mails and the pictures of your great family, two and fourleggers.

It sounds as if you are very well thought of by all this board.

You have much to contribute, and I am glad that you are not taking it personally. After all the postings, it's obvious that it wasn't meant that way.

I sure wasn't clear on the rules, but then I forget most things after I go to sleep. :)

I'm sure you'll be plenty busy for the next few weeks, but we'll all be eagerly waiting to hear how the puppies do on raw.

Hugs to you and all of yours!

You can and should continue to seek advice during her pregnancy.  You had first posted pictures of her and stated she was pregnant (yes, after someone asked for an update), so the pictures were removed, no problem. No one said that you had "announced" you had a litter, but by virtue of stating she is having puppies, we need to uphold the rules regarding listed breeders.  You are not at all stupid and should not think we (the moderators) or anyone else thinks that...these rules can be confusing to a new poster.  If you have any doubts at all as to questions or pictures you'd like to post, please feel free to ask us, we are here to help.    This medical board is here for folks who need help and if you need help, please post.  There are many on this board that will and can help you.

I totally agree about BDW not allowing just anyone to use this site as advertisement for dogs they bred with no regards to health. And it IS a bullodg site. Breed specific. Many come here looking for advice on their bulldogs, and the show breeders that have a lot of experience with bulldogs are INVALUABLE. Their knowledge about bulldog specific issues, (and let's face it, our precious squishy faced babies do have a lot of specific issues) is very important AND very relevant to a breed specific site. Bulldogs have a terrible reputation for being unhealthy, money sucking animals and it is breeders like the ones we see on BDW that are working so hard to change that perception. They are truly dedicated to the breed.

 Deb, your comment about Bulldogs of the Month did hurt some feelings. But if your feelings were hurt why not talk to her about it, directly, to the point. "Deb, were you speaking of MY dog? Cause that hurt my feelings"  We are adults. We have the ability to communicate in sophisticated ways. Why is that so hard? Lashing out in anger so rarely resolves anything.

 Angela, Pollyana is a SUPER SPECIAL bulldog, her therapy work and reading with kids is an asset to the breed, and she is a WONDERFUL bully ambassador. Are you 100% positive Deb called Polly crap? Did you ask her?

I will say that Deb, MY baby girl may not be show quality, but the reality is that that's what MOST of us have. We take the not-show-quality dogs from the show breeders who can not use them in their program. I am asking you to consider our viewpoint. We LOVE the breed. LOVE it passionately. We do not care if our babie's do not conform to the standard, conformation is NOT what we were looking for when we got them. For someone respected and who's opinion and knowledge is valued, like you, it is VERY hurtful to hear you say our beloved babies are somehow not worthy to represent what a bulldog IS.  A bulldog is far more than what the body looks like on the outside, their personality is what makes us fall head over heels in love with them. Have you NEVER bred a bulldog that was not show quality? Wouldn't you get hurt if someone said one of your not-show-quality dogs was unworthy to even represent bullodgs?

I understand that this board used to be for the show community, and has evolved to the pet community. But does that really make it a joke? THAT is what you said that hurt my feelings. My dog is not a show dog but she is still a bulldog and I still crave information about BULLDOGS, as a whole. I am a knowledge fanatic, and it makes me feel very sad to think that my questions about the breed, though having nothing to do with showing, conformation, bloodlines, would be considered a joke. :-(  The friendly sharing, stories and pictures, is the icing on the cake. Purebred bulldog or not, it's still wonderful to get to know the dogs AND owners. My life is BETTER because I have met Lisa and Onslow. Enriched, enlightened and I value their friendship highly.

Bulldog of the month, or bulldog photo of the month, should include the dogs that any average person is going to encounter on the street, in the store, and, especially, what they are most likely going to get from a reputable breeder. What show breeder is going to sell one of their conformationally superb puppies to a pet home for a pet price?  A bulldog that is conformationally challenged is NOT lacking in that unique bully personality. Personality is just as important as physical appearance when considering adding a dog to a home. Only allowing show dogs to be photo of the month, is not an accurate representation of what the average person is going to get.

Ok, I'm done now. I just hate animosity and tension.

Listen I didn't just step into the world of dogs, so you don't need to inform me of anything. I am fully aware of breeders that are big breeders that I would also never purchase a puppy from (ie show miller). Maybe you missed that. IMO a buyer should seek out a breeder that has maybe a litter a year, is breeding for their own purpose (ie to keep a puppy), raises their dogs in their home, and focuses on health, temperment and conformation in that order. They should have a commitment and dedication to the future of the breed and the quality and conformity to standard. They should educate themselves long before they even consider having a litter and take the right steps to give their bitch the best care and advantage of having a safe pregnancy and litter. Guessing on when a section should be done because you didn't do progestrone testing IMO is just plain risky. There is alot more that I would add to this list but I've got 4 legged kids that need my attention. Yes my dogs are my pets and live in my home and sleep on my bed....oh and at times go to dogs shows and even win.

So think on that one for a minute!

I am sorry that somehow all of this tension evolved from my posts... I can't appologize enough.

I don't have a whole lot to say, I've not been on this board long so I don't think it's my place. I don't know what it was like before.

I do agree with what you have said about there being terrible breeders in the show world. I agree 100%.  This may sound horrible... but if your dogs live out in chain link kennels all day and all night, despite the weather conditions and you only bathe and groom them just before shows and you only keep the girls around long enough to breed and then get rid of them once they've bred 2 or 3 times... I know I'm going to catch hell for saying this... but I think that's awful.

Yes, I may have bred my dog. But I don't think of her as a commodity. I see all of these sites offering up retired show dogs or retired breeders and I think that's awful. I guess that is why I could  never breed professionally and will never be an approved breeder on here. Because I would never breed my dog more than 2 or 3 times (if that) and once she's not able to have litters (even considering spaying her now) she won't leave my home just because I can no longer make money off of her. She's here to stay. She sleeps indoors with me. She's spoiled rotten and part of the family. Heck we even took her camping this summer.. Bought her a life jacket for the lake and everything. She's one of the family and here to stay. I can't imagine what dogs go through to live with someone for 2-5 years and bond with them and then have to move out just because they are past their prime. We will keep 1 puppy now and if we ever breed again we will keep 1 more. That will be 4 dogs for us and that's plenty. It would be difficult having a large lab and any more than 3 bulldogs (plus 3 kids)... so 4 dogs is our limit. And if we were to keep only females and breed each twice that means we'd have 6 litters. No more. I couldn't go past that because I'm not about to start putting dogs in cages just to keep them around for breeding or going to get rid of dogs so that I can make room for more money makers.  Sure show people and breeders who do that might consider themselves responsible because they keep clean cages and such... but in my opinion, dogs do have emotions and feelings and I think it's irresponsible to reject them just because they can no longer make money.  Then there are those breeders out there that have 10+ dogs... You can't tell me 10 dogs live in your homes? I've been to a local "breeder" of toy breeds here in my home town and that lady has 30 something dogs all in their pound size kennels and she thinks she's such a responisble and respectable breeder because she keeps the cages clean.  HA!!!  - Not a single one of those dogs knows a human the way I feel dogs should. I think doing that is cruel and irresponsible.

But I probably should be keeping my mouth shut because lord knows someone is going to come back and rip me a new one.

I understand the rules but I think it's wrong to only allow someone on an approved breeders list if they've bred at least 3 times. Sometimes, it's the byb/private breeders who care most about and take the best care of their dogs and litters.

I always hear, oh we are in it to better the breed, we love the breed yada yada. No the ones who really love the breed are the ones that rescue. The people that try in vain to save every dog, the dogs people think ugly, the ones breeders would toss out as not perfect, all of the out of pocket money spent, all of the time and tears, most breeders will never understand that kind of love for the breed, so it just makes me laugh when I hear some stuck up snob say all this B.S, about not a perfect bulldog, or not even a bulldog. If it says Bulldog in the name, it's a Bulldog, get over your self.

Again I am not lumping all breeders under my statement as I know a few good ones, but I will say my statement covers a majority, as alot are in it for the reasons stated in previous posts.

I may not agree with everything Deb says,or the way she says it, but verbally attacking her, blatantly calling her names, is completely unnecessary. We are all way too old now to resort to playground fight tactics.

And there seems to be a division between the show breeders and the pet owners, and neither side is willing to concede ANY validation to the others points or concerns.

There will ALWAYS BE ABUSIVE NEGLECTFUL HUMAN BEINGS. ALWAYS. You will NOT make every dog in this country wanted, cared for, loved, and cherished by eliminating the breeding of purebred dogs.  The only way to eliminate the need for rescues is to eliminate human beings. To even suggest that rescuers are the only TRUE lovers of (any particular breed of dog) is absurd.

We ALL LOVE BULLDOGS. At least that is one thing we can agree upon. But bulldogs came about because a group of fanciers got together over 200 years ago and decided that they would NOT let the breed die out. They carefully considered what needed to be changed so that people wouldn't demand their elimination, and then carefully, with MUCH thought and consideration, bred the right dogs to produce the bulldog temperament we all know and love today. Their hard work and dedication to the breed was a GIFT to all of us now that LOVE them. They came up with guidelines, so there would be no doubt about what a bulldog is. Exhibiting dogs has been around for several hundred years. NO ONE is going to willfully choose all the care, upkeep, travel, money, heartache, and everything else that goes into the breeding and showing of dogs unless the have a deep passion for the DOGS. They are not all perfect, but again you would have to wipe out the human race in order to truly end all kinds of animal misuse.

There are STILL breeders that are DEDICATED to bulldogs, to steadfastly work to keep them LOOKING LIKE BULLDOGS, and to be healthy!!! This is not a bad thing. OMG can you imagine a world with no bulldogs? Completely unworth living in. Who do you think is making SURE!!! bulldogs still exist???? WHO do you think is working so HARD to overcome the serious health issues bulldogs have??? Without breeders who SHOW their dogs, bulldogs as a breed would slowly but surely CHANGE from the bulldog we all love so much! In order to keep a breed alive there MUST BE peer reviewed CONFORMATION judging. Without it, ANY dogs would be bred, no matter what they looked like! To completely disregard the very people who are dedicating themsleves to making SURE bulldogs are a thriving, vital breed, to making sure that there are HEALTHY bulldogs, to lump them ALL into one category of selfish, glory seeking, animal users and abusers because they SHOW them, or because SOME breeders do not care one bit if they breed unhealthy non-conforming dogs and will sell them to ANYONE that has the money, is so blindly childish, WRONG, and hypocritical! They show their LOVE of the breed by making sure to BREED HEALTHY dogs that still conform to the bulldog standard!!  That LOVE IS VALID, vital, and ensures that our grandchildren's children will be able to be owned and loved by a bulldog, just like we are!

Deb did NOT SAY that pet bulldogs are NOT WORTHY BULLDOGS!!! The BIGGEST conflict seems to be about what dogs should be used as photo of the month, and THAT is where there is disagreement between pet owners and show breeders.  Good examle of the breed? Beloved, not very good example, pet? There is NO NEED to turn THAT question into a personal attack against someone, or to attack breeders in general!!! My God people! Without the RESPONSIBLE breeders, there would be NO BULLDOGS!!! Of course they are going to consider the photo of the month as important to show what a QUALITY bulldog should look like. Do I agree with that? NO, I do not. But good grief I am not going to turn it into a personal vendetta against show breeders!

did I not. She looks like an Olde and I was told she was an old, by several people, I said I was sorry I posted it. Honestly I just don't care anymore. If you don't want to accept my apology that is fine.

I said none of the things Tammy said I said, those were in your post.

I'm done!