DadtoMatilda avatar image

Allergic dog and the Raw Diet? Premium Kibble? I'm going nuts...(long)

Hi everyone, 

Thanks in advance for your advice, if you have any, but I've been perusing every bulldog related message board and web site I can find and I think I'm more confused than when I started.

My best buddy, Matilda, is 6 (she'll be 7 on December 8th); I've had her since she was 2. She is everything to me. Since I am pretty much alone in the world, it is very important to me that she have a long, healthy, and happy life. I know that I will not sound as crazy as I do to non-doggy people when I say that in most instances I love her more than I do myself. :)

Anyway, she is my first bully and I admit that this has been a learning experience in many respects. Though my vet says she's very proud of the job I've done since I got her (we got the tail pocket under control (sort of) and her weight is down to 55 from 72, coat looks good, she can climb stairs on her own, lol, etc) the more I read the more I think I may not be feeding this dog an optimum diet for some of the special needs she has. So that I don't write the Gettysburg Address to you all, I will just try to list my concerns and some things I've noticed. You should know that she has been eating Royal Canin Bulldog 24 for most of her life. They have recently changed the formula and it could be the problem, but still we have the following:

1) yeast. she never had this problem before, but she has a serious case of corn-chip feet. in fact, she used to not mind nail grinding but now I think she hates her feet being touched because they itch and are irritated. we put lotrimin on it and it does not go away. it gets whitish and she does not like me to try to wipe it away with malacetic wipes.

2) yeast 2 (yup). i notice her skin seems "darker", almost as though she is slightly dirty. some of her skin actually IS black, but patches have appeared that weren't that color before. she gets a bath in Nizoral shampoo, though it makes her smell great and is soothing it doesn't seem to be addressing the issue.

3) Runny eyes. One of her eyes has this gray goo. I use plain saline to clean and lubricate. She gets it pretty bad some mornings. A recent run of antibiotics for what they thought was kennel cough did not change this. Still bigtime gray eye boogers. She had to be vaccinated against kennel cough to go to summer camp (indoors) and here we get this sneezy, runny nose dog. It went away for a while and now she seems sneezy again. Today we get an email from summer camp as an FYI about Canine Influenza. I almost exploded a blood vessel.

4) Allergies. I am aware that Matilda has allergic reactions to certain drugs like clavamox and tramadol. (ok I guess that one was just an FYI).

5) Sheds ALOT. Daily brushing; I could make a rug. Her coat is soft and fuller than ever and no longer dull, but man. It was never this bad.

 

I am wondering if perhaps it might make her more comfortable to start feeding her raw. I am terrified of giving her raw bones (remember, I am alone here...it is me, me, and me alone!!) so I would like to buy something packaged like Bravo. She loves, repeat LOVES veggies and fruit and it is one of the few things she will whine for. The one plus of the RCB24 is that she has no gas on it. None. I feed her anything else and she farts for all of England. 

But then there was the other camp - those that suggest a fish and oatmeal or fish and potato diet of kibble like Orijen? She takes salmon oil probiotics and that seems to work well. I also feed a bit of raw cider vinegar. I suspect that I could take care of some of the issues that she is having with diet and, like I said, I aim to make this dog as comfortable as possible and I welcome your suggestions on good diet plans for the "middle aged" bully with allergies. I just don't know what to do...

We have a vet appt on saturday to talk about this influenza e-mail we got from day camp, I plan to ask about diet but never once has the vet mentioned yeast even though it is pretty obvious particularly between the toes...

Anyway, thanks for listening and I welcome your advice. I hope there's some folks out there with some good advice. 

My best little girl and I thank you...

Matildas Dad

 

 

 

kimrisa's picture

Matilda is lucky to have you

It's clear how devoted you are to her and she sure is pretty. I don't have any good advice to give because I too am going nuts with trying to find the right food for my Tuffy who suffers from food sensitivities but wanted to wish you luck. I'm sure someone on this board will be of help to you!

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DadtoMatilda's picture

Tuffy is so beautiful! I just

Tuffy is so beautiful!

I just talked to my best friend and mentioned the raw diet. She said that her Akita (who passed recently of natural causes) almost died from a bacterial infection her vet thinks she got from starting to feed raw some time ago. Just when you think you're getting over the fear, someone tells you something and you're back at square one. Honestly, I'd like a dog whose toes don't bug her so much that she'll only let me trim one nail every few days without freaking out. And whose skin is back to the light pink it used to be! 

I could go on and on. But thanks for your message of support. We're really hoping someone can help.

I would take that info with

a grain of salt. Vet's LOVE manufactured dog food! 

Just educate yourself, and remember that the dog food industry is the third largest industry in the world. Good book for vets to read Raw Meaty Bones Promote Health.

There are people who feed raw without educating first, and they do give raw feeders a bad name.

Is there a Holistic Vet in your area? They can be extremely helpful, and some will even converse on the telephone.

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Kofi and Carol

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CathyandAudrey's picture

I can only tell you my own experience

My girl Audrey is my first bulldog also. She was on Royal Canin puppy for her first year. She did fine at first, no gas or other issues, then she started with the yeast issues close to her first birthday. They seemed to very quickly get worse and worse. She was scratching her face on everything, licking her feet constantly, her face and feet smelled like Smart Food Popcorn, and she got a very stubborn ear infection that would NOT go away. She was also vomiting a few times a week. I knew I had to switch her off puppy food, and decided to try grain free. I waited til after she recovered from her spay, then switched her slowly to Taste of the Wild. She threw that up more often than kept it down. I had been leaning towards raw but was still balking at the whole idea of it. So, I read and read everything I could find, and decided to just try it. I did pre-packaged at first, I was still afraid I'd mess it up somehow.

She LOVED it! Better yet, she went from vomiting whole undigested meals of kibble to NEVER again vomiting a meal! Her face stopped smelling. Her ear infection cleared up, AND didn't come back. She didn't scratch her face on everything anymore, or lick her feet anymore. Her coat got so SOFT I couldn't even believe it, and very very shiny.

The pre-made stuff was outrageously expensive, so after a few months I decided to just DO IT! Bought some chicken and fed it to her. OMG she devoured it. Audrey absolutely LOVES her raw food! Now she eats whatever the grocery store has on sale. There are ways to feed raw that cost FAR less than the grocery store, but for me the convienence of the local store is too easy. Plus I only have one to feed now, so it's really not that expensive.  

Here on BDW I posted a Raw Diet Diary and wrote daily updates, then weekly updates.

I will NEVER feed kibble again. I also stopped all poisons on and in my dog. She looks great, maintains her weight, and still NO stinky itchy face or feet or ear infections.

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Cathy and Audrey  

There are many of us here who feel like you

do. Kofi is my best bud too, and I want to keep her as long as possible. It is just the two of us.

I started her on raw July 19, and I just want to tell you that it has been such fun for me.

Judy Wilson is also alone with her dogs, and has been feeding raw for years. You may want to e-mail her if she doesn't happen to see your post. Remember, you don't have to feed bones. Judy said it was awhile before she did that, feeding eggs with shells for calcium.

That being said, it is very important to educate yourself before beginning to mix your own. 

I believe that you would see a quick improvement if you began to feed raw. Bravo is a good start.

Good luck to you.......Good reading to inform beginners: Raw Dog Food, Make it Easy for You and Your Dog by Carina Beth MacDonald.

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Kofi and Carol

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AND how could I forget to mention

that Matilda is a cutie!

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Kofi and Carol

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DadtoMatilda's picture

thank you all for the help so far!

I knew someone would understand. I think I would just want someone to KNOW what I've decided to do. When it is just us it is very easy to panic. I think what I am going to is:

1) inform the vet i would like to start Bravo because like Audrey's mom said I'm still terrified I'm going to screw it up.

1a) look into a holistic vet. we are in the metro Providence RI Boston MA area so I am sure there's something...

2) wean her into the food...that's what the company suggests. i guess Bravo comes in little burgers. easy-peasy for the paranoid. 

3) once we are on it gain confidence by reading about how to do it myself. someday perhaps i would gain the confidence i need to put a raw egg in a bowl with shells and all and just let her eat it, but right now that actually kinda gives me a bit of hives. lol...the post about a whole raw chicken wing...oh my goodness. 

I actually recently looked into becoming a foster bulldog parent for rescues. The past couple of years have been hard for me. I am very thankful for the companionship a bulldog provides - I guess I am just looking for a way to thank my dog for being there for me and suddenly it dawned upon me that gee, the best way to do that would be to make sure she's eating what she SHOULD be eating. 

My experience with raw egg

in bowl.....NOT a good idea!

Kofi was fascinated and immediately picked it up and ran to the next room. A bit of a mess, to say the least.... :)

I thought about raw for months, maybe even years. When Kofi lost interest in her kibble, I decided to try. She was on Wellness, grain free.

When I give raw eggs, I blend with some veggie glop to mix with her meat.

You probably won't get any encouragement from your vet. But don't be put off....easy does it...you'll be fine, and Matilda will love you for it!

Do what you feel comfortable with. You may want to try a grain free kibble first, but her problems are probably from her food.

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Kofi and Carol

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CathyandAudrey's picture

LOL!

eww! Nothing like raw egg on the floor....

Audrey LOVES raw egg, absolutely LOVES it! I crack it and put it in her bowl, but I crush the shell.

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Cathy and Audrey  

Thanks Cathy, I'll

try that next time!

If I made you smile, I'm glad!

Love to your aching heart.....you are so special for staying with us!

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Kofi and Carol

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CathyandAudrey's picture

awww, <sniff>

Thanks.

I am just so GRATEFUL I have Audrey! She really is my heart dog. It is so weird how well she knows how to make me feel better.

She fought with Bridget but still looks around for her. :-(

There is something extraordinary about bulldogs and their intuitiveness to their humans!

 

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Cathy and Audrey  

AmyandSophia's picture

I don't feed raw, but that isn't because I don't believe it is..

Very good for some folks to feed. I imagine your bully would do fine on a raw diet. It sounds very easy to do once you get started, and pre-packaged foods are becoming more readily available. There are many here that feed raw and if you are interested in that, you will find a wealth of information here that will help you make your decision with confidence.

If you choose not to feed raw, a high end, grain free kibble would probably work for you. I have a girl with mild allergies and I feed Natural Balance Sweet potato and Bison. She loves it and does very well on it. I have two dogs and for me, the cost of raw is not workable right now. If I just had one, I might be more interested in trying it. 

Best of luck, and just listen to those folks here that feed raw successfully and their dogs do fabulously on it. They won't steer you wrong.

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Amy and Sophia

...me, you mean me?? you mean listen to meeee???

LOL! I just had to try to make it fit Amy.... it's true we have a wealth of knowledge on this board....I'm learning so much from you all.....like grain free for Matildas problem, I think so too.

 

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Kofi and Carol

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AmyandSophia's picture

Naw, I meant everyone BUT you:-)

Of course I mean you!! You have a lot of knowledge and insight and you feed raw. Took you a while to come to it, but you are doing great:-) So yes, absolutely, I mean YOU!

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Amy and Sophia

Sadie was having the same problems you are. The tear

stains, red itchy feet, and shedding.  I was feeding her Solid Gold, then Taste of the Wild, Wellness Grain Free.   Finally the beginning of the yr, I switched to the Bravo Patties.  She gets fruits and veggies, oils, and seameal.  Her weight went from 62 to 50, poops are good, tear stains are gone, her labs are great,  feet licking is periodic I think alot of it is habit.  She has more energy and she is 10 1/2.  Good Luck with your girl.

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DadtoMatilda's picture

It is definitely worth

It is definitely worth trying! They carry it in two stores in the area so I'm going to check it out!

As for grain free kibble, I did once try to change her food. This was a few years ago...I think it was Innova that I went with and then another brand. She got some hives (from something) and diarrhea. And I did wean her! So...I put it into some big plastic tubs with labels on it and brought it to the animal rescue shelter downtown and gave it to them.

Also, some well-meaning person once gave her a piece of plain grilled salmon after which she moaned like she was in pain (like me after eating a few hotdogs LOL :) for a couple of hours.

When I got Matilda, she'd been eating Iams weight control, which to me looked and smelled like something I would use to make a gravel driveway. And she was still enormous :)

 

Deb and MacKenzie and Ester's picture

Natures Variety RAW Patties

are also great if you decide to head towards a raw diet. Bravo is also great but I think it is a little more expensive.  I have seen dogs on raw that had horrible tear stains so it may not be a cure all but it's definitely worth a try.

I feed the raws patties, but also a grain free kibble make by PetCurean called "Now". I can't afford to feed straight raw anymore and I have a hard time keeping weight on them with the raw patties only.

DadtoMatilda's picture

It is definitely worth

It is definitely worth trying! They carry it in two stores in the area so I'm going to check it out!

As for grain free kibble, I did once try to change her food. This was a few years ago...I think it was Innova that I went with and then another brand. She got some hives (from something) and diarrhea. And I did wean her! So...I put it into some big plastic tubs with labels on it and brought it to the animal rescue shelter downtown and gave it to them.

Also, some well-meaning person once gave her a piece of plain grilled salmon after which she moaned like she was in pain (like me after eating a few hotdogs LOL :) for a couple of hours.

When I got Matilda, she'd been eating Iams weight control, which to me looked and smelled like something I would use to make a gravel driveway. And she was still enormous :)

 

DadtoMatilda's picture

Is PetCurean and Nature's

Is PetCurean and Nature's Variety commercially available or is it an internet-only product? I just purchased some grain free treats tonight (fish and sweet potato) and PetCo (who had the patties on their website) told me that they do not sell any of the specialty raw stuff in stores.

We do have a higher end pet store with two locations that has frozen, etc, and I know carries Bravo; I just want to make sure that I don't get stuck out in the cold as far as availability. 

That is a good idea as far as mixing. I don't get tear stains per se, but we do get goop IN the eye that runs down it and makes a mess. The yeasty skin is by far the worst part of the whole issue. 

Deb and MacKenzie and Ester's picture

Petcurean is a Canadian company

so it might not be available in your area.  We have a store called Pet's Energy that carries it here in Seattle area and they had a booth at one of the last shows I was at.

Here's their website http://www.petcurean.com/  check their store locator for a dealer in your area.

The high end pet stores that carry Bravo usually carry Natures Variety. You can also check their store locator.  http://www.naturesvariety.com/

I tried their Instinct kibble and didn't like it. MacKenzie started getting tear stains after about 3 weeks, so he is back on "Now". I tried the Instinct because it is  at a store that is more convenient for me.

I don't feed raw(raw meat

I don't feed raw(raw meat that is not cooked) I cook these up in the microwave to add some variety to their kibbles but they don't eat it everday cuz i see lots of fats when I cook them up. Mine is on a royal canin lowfat diet and i give him fish oils one pill every other day and he seems to shed less. sometimes it could be the shampoo you're using. I use hexadene shampoo and bathe once a week.

kibby5's picture

my kibby had the same issues...

my 6 yr old kibby has gone thru many different foods..with us,  its trial and error and unfortunately it takes a while because most food effects will be visible within the first 2 weeks and then wont go away for about 4-6 , even if stop feeding them that food.

i got kibby at 5 from a rescue and she is my first bully ( i have had many dogs before, but never had to deal with allergies!).. funny, her foster mom was feeding her kibbles and bits, i think because there is a picture of a bulldog on the front! but kibby kept having ear infections... so i soon switched her to royal canin bd24 .. it gave kibby runny poo and gas... then i switched to diet royal canin food because the vet made us and she was too fat... she did really well on that food - good poos, but still ear infections.. so i figured it was the grains... so then when she was done losing her weight, i tried to put her on duck and potatoe (i forget the brand- the one that most people use here- natures balance?) ... that food made her turn red and yeasty all over and gave her uti... i also read somewhere that some kibble has way too much protein in it and can make them have runny poo /uti/ or skin issues...  then i figured maybe it was too much potatoes and duck protein..so then i switched her to natures variety chicken and tapioca kibble... then her poo was too runny again...  now we have switched to natures variety salmon and brown rice - which i am happy to say she has been on for close to a year now without any issues.. her ears are better, no yeast.. still occassional idc.. but with these bullies- i soon learned that it is very hard to ever obtain and make them "perfectly" free of any issues at any given time!! just impossible.. i use to pull out my hair and freak out everytime something new popped up.. a pimple? missing hair spot? runny eyes? congestion? ughh .. too much!!! i am sure everyone on this board has gone thru the same trauma!

runny/red eyes, some congestion - external allergies..i have learned to give a claritin  (vet solved that one for me!)

idc - mostly from dirt and moisture stuck in between the toes, sometimes the food.

uti - from the food or pooty is not cleaned often enogh (they are so low to the ground you know!)

dark brown or too much ear wax- usually the food

itchiness-redness-pawlicking- usually the food or water

pimples- she lays her face on the floor.concrete alot, and needs to be wiped after every meal- but you still cant always control it.

so sorry for rambling .. getting back to the food.. so from my trial and errors.. i have learned that kibby can handle some grains, like rice or brown rice.. not corn.. she can eat fish, chicken, turkey as a wet topper for her kibble.. not too much lamb or beef or venison... too much potato and sweet potato make her yeasty. it took me about 6 months to get her dry food correct.. hopefully it will last! :)

i havent tried raw yet - i am sure it works but i just dont have time. i have seen alot of freeze dried raw and have some samples.. i am planning to try to bake it into treats for my ladies and see what happens! good luck with your bully!

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sincerely, christine

DadtoMatilda's picture

I know what you mean, that

I know what you mean, that sounds like my experience. We'd be on one food and it would cause situation X, then another would cause situation Y. We went to the vet yesterday and they told me to use plain claritin or zyrtec with benadryl as a backup and that switching her food may help ALTHOUGH without knowing exactly what the allergen is (and the school of thought that says she could develop a single source allergy to one of them in the future) means I should probably have her allergy tested.

The other thing they suggested is a full liver panel, etc, at her yearly. Since she is due for her vaccines, etc at that time I only want them taking blood ONE TIME. Since Matilda is also a rescue I think that she has been through enough.

I was away last night and a pet sitter stayed at the house. She didn't report anything unusual, but I didn't ask her to medicate Matilda at all for allergies or anything because I haven't switched the diet yet. I'm a paranoid owner. :) Apparently everything went fine. 

I bought the Nature's Variety Raw patties at the Pet Store on Friday. I haven't started giving it to her because I don't want to waste it and have to find a way to cut it while keeping it frozen. I don't own a cleaver or a large enough knife to cut it. Isn't it funny how I don't bother to go through so much trouble for myself but for my dog I've been on 4 shopping trips in the last three days to ramp up for experimenting with a diet change. I couldn't find the PetCurean in the store they listed as carrying it so I'm going to have to see if I can order it. 

It is sad how much these dogs have to go through sometimes just to be happy and healthy. I just love her so much; I'd get another one in a heartbeat. 

jihigg's picture

same thing with rex

back and forth with different foods. We did have him allergy tested at one year old (now 8). It was expensive, came out he is allergic to everything on the planet. Also the test was not accurate. The lab gave us food suggestions and they didnt work. You should see us in the stores, it is a comedy routine. We read the ingredients in every bag of dog food to try and find something that he is not allergic to. The blood test said he could have potatos, but he cant. After 2 more years, we had him allergy tested again, at a different vet and it was more reasonably priced. And his allergies changed, so back to the stores looking like crazy people going through all the bags of dog food. We even tried science diet ultraZ, which is suppose to have nothing in it,,,,he is allergic to it. We finally settled him in somewhat with Wellness lamb and brown rice, but there are still things in it that cause him allergies, but they are like the 10th ingredient. I am now considering a natural diet for him, maybe not raw meat,  I will cook it. Does anyone know how to get them the vitamins and minerals they need if I feed him cooked meat?  Iam hoping if i go to a natural diet  I would be able to decrease his dependence on prednisone. thanks and good luck!!!

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Jllian and PorkChop and our beloved BullyAngel Rex <3

DadtoMatilda's picture

i'm feeding nupro seameal as

i'm feeding nupro seameal as a supplement with a small amount of salmon oil with probiotics also. i get both at a higher-end pet store; i couldn't find it at the chain stores.

i am probably going to have to bite the bullet and have her tested regardless. she is the only dog i have ever met that will sit and beg for fresh vegetables. i'd love to be able to just give her what she is NOT allergic to (hence the raw or all-natural) with a supplement and see if that alleviates anything.

she has come far, don't get me wrong. when i got her, her hair was thin, she was HUGE, and she was very smelly. for a while, things were awesome but now i think what we've got going on here is an allergy developed from being on Royal Canin for so long. Which probably (much to my guilt complex) wasn't the best thing for her to be on in the first place...

Yeast (and possible infections from the irritated skin is causes) are our biggest problems right now.

DadtoMatilda's picture

Update

Okay. As Judy suggested, /thanks!!!/ we went cold turkey on the kibble and she's been eating raw patties for 4 days or now. There haven't been any ill effects at all...(yet??). She seems to really enjoy eating the food and she is much more interested in the preparation than she was with the dry. She's supposed to sit by the dining room table until it is ready and then she can come into the kitchen when it is put down for her. Well, most of the time since starting this she snorts and wiggles and tries to creep into the kitchen. Guess that means she likes it!

The raw patties feeding guide says that a less or average activity dog can eat 1-2 patties per day. This is kind of confusing, because the difference between 1 and 2 is kinda a lot! So I'm feeding .75-ish per feeding. The patties themselves are pretty big, so I cut them in half and she gets half-patty and 1 "chunk"  per meal (I also bought the bag of chunks or whatever they're called). They do not defrost as quickly as they say they will

A lot of what I have read says that I can rotate the variety. I was wondering if anyone with bulldog experience knows if this would be true for bullies as well. She was on a chicken-based dry food before, so I chose the poultry variety of raw food. However, they also make venison, bison, duck, blah blah blah. I was just wondering if I could change it up and see how that works because obviously if some of the original problem has anything to do with chicken, we might see more improvement with a different protein. She ate plain cooked bison and brown rice when she was sick once. Lots of gas but she did like it.

She hasn't had any gas on the raw, though and her bathroom behavior is on the same schedule. Her stool's a little bit softer this morning, but that could be the adjustment. I did note that it is way smaller.

Kind of wondering what to do for treats (something that I could take on a walk, so no I am not carrying a raw hock on a walk :) so for the time being I bought a bag of dried liver and have been trying to use it sparingly. Ordinarily, I'd lay off treats entirely during the adjustment period but here in the semi-city it is important that she does not ignore me in certain situations when out for a walk.

There are a lot of dogs particularly in my neighborhood that live outside without training or supervision and sometimes I've got to distract her so she doesn't indicate interest in a dog that isn't as nice as she is. :/