i think i will get him a jacket and give it a shot. he loves the pool....

Chris.....

Years ago, I purchased a puppy and she had a Grade 1 to 2 luxating patella, at our Vets suggestion we give her water therapy, she was in the pool everyday, of course with our assistance. It took about 2 months, but believe it or not the assisted swimming tighten those knees right up and she never had a problem. I placed her in a pet home and she is still doing Great! no pain, no trouble walking, you would never have know she had a knee problem as a puppy/young adult. We just put the life jacket on her and held her under her tummy ( kinda of like you would a infant) and let her paddle along for about 10 -15 mins , not to the point of exhaustion.

brutal honesty. thats what i needed to hear. i have no plans to breed this boy at all. i did have plans to show him. im not sure if i should even do that at this point knowing this problem. i am not one to sweep things under the rug and pretend they dont exist. he just turned 6 months this week and is it possible it is a growth related thing or should i just get over it and realize i shouldnt bother? i do know that bulldogs have issues. i have several and luckily havent had any major issues. i have had bulldogs for 7 years and had started researching for several yrs before that. i have every intention to only improve this breed if i do a breeding. the lack of response to my postings tells me that this is probably a very common thing that people would prefer to pretend didnt exhist. unfortunately it does exhist, and bullies are suffering daily from it. thanks so much for your input. it is frustrating for me to buy a pup from a "reputable" breeder in hopes of finishing him/her and then getting this HUGE bomb dropped. sorry i guess i am greiving in my own strange way. thanks for letting me vent........




Chris.....

The technique for grading knees is the same for all breeds, so I am not really sure the fact that the vet is not a "bulldog vet" has any bearing on this. Plus, the technique for grading does not involve x-ray, but rather a manual manipulation of the knee while flexing and extending it so the vet can grade the degree of luxation.
An x-ray will show if there is any arthritis developing. This is what causes the pain. A 3-4 is a pretty substantial luxation. I think some people might throw out "for a bulldog" but knees are a problem in the breed and we all should try to breed for grade 0 or grade 1 knees. Hold off on surgery. Bulldogs do have musculature that many breeds do not and often knee surgery is not necessary, unless the dog becomes truly uncomfortable or if he blows a ligament somehow and even still, sometimes crate rest works ok if this happens.
Bulldogs often do not show signs of this problem, especially when they are young. My own vet grades knees for me upon initial puppy exam so I know if one has the problem he or she will be re-evaluated as far as show potential is concerned. I would think that if Becky actually felt this popping, the problem is just as the vet diagnosed. They just should not pop.
It is up to you and your breeder if you want to continue to show and eventually breed your puppy. The fact that the problem is so widespread in the breed is evidence enough that most people do not care. Likely many breeders will tell you not to worry.
The other side of the coin is that if you want to breed to improve the breed at large, is it really in anyone's best interest to breed this puppy?
I would venture a guess that not many people want to touch this subject, at least not publically. Health and bulldogs do not always fit cozily in many Bulldoggers' minds, unfortunately. Most bulldoggers are taught that it's "ok" to breed any and all health problems because "it's just bulldogs" and it's to be expected. The fact that the general bulldog-buying public's perception is that "we know they have probems but we want one anyway" does not do anything to keep breeders in check either.
Plus, no one wants to give you advise that might make you or the breeder angry.
I am hoping someday for a paradigm shift, I know it's not something that will come soon or easily.
Besides, even the best intentioned breedings can create these problems, again, because they are so widespread to begin with. It takes some generations of careful and picky breeding to eliminate these health issues.
Sorry for the rant. I will not tell you what to do, that is up to the parties involved.
I just wanted to you to have some extra input.
FYI;
http://www.bcahealth.homestead.com/spinabifida.html
E



? regarding luxating patella
by chris (Login cshedore)
Bulldogsworld Show Forum

pup i co-own has been diagnosed by a non bulldog vet with a grade 3-4 luxating patella. no xrays or anything were taken. he was just at this vet to get his monthly heartworm and Becky told him we were concerned about a popping you could feel in his knees. he doesnt limp or anything and you would never know it by his gate or his actions at all. i noticed it a couple of weeks ago when i was trying to work on his stacking. we are taking him to get a second opinion. i dont feel very confident about this diagnoses. if he had a grade 3 or 4 wouldnt he be showing some visible signs? he is 6 months old. we notified the breeder and she is only willing to refund the price difference between a show and pet puppy. the vet thought the surgery (if needed) would run around $900 per knee. obviously i wont have the surgery unless i think it is necessary, but does anyone have any suggestions besides getting the 2nd opinion? also, as breeders what would you do if this had happened to a pup you placed knowing it was placed to be shown,. just trying to get some advice here. thanks!

I would also like to point out tha the degree of luxation is caused by anatomical abnormality of the conformation of the knee joint. So the poorer the structure of the knee the worse the luxation in general. By breeding to dogs and for dogs with sound rear conformation, we improve the health of the breed and it's beauty and conformation.

So a grade one or even 2 luxation, while not in any way desireable, is far less severe than a 3-6. If you have a dog or bitch with a 1-2, you might consider the possibility of breeding BUT only to a dog with OFA normal patellae at at least two years of age. and screening the pups carefully.

At the end of the day, the fewer dogs with any degree of luxation present that are bred, the less this will appear in our lines and breed