"and intelligent people deal in facts".

well, if thats so.. why not post your real name?
e

Sharon,

I do not believe ANY vet in their right mind would issue a health certificate for a puppy with a grade 3 heart murmur. High altitudes and heart murmurs are a dangerous combination. It can result in DEATH!

Who is looking out for the Bulldog here? You put your puppy's life in danger for what? A thousand dollars?!?! This is a shame.

Dennis
MyToy Bulldogs
www.mytoybulldogs.com
http://www.mytoybulldogs.com



MyToyBulldogs
http://www.mytoybulldogs.com

But the witch hunt the Division IV board participated in is o.k in your book.......

Jo

Dear Dan Bandy,

Thanks for proving our point that ONLY strengthens our case against the BCA and yourself! So, AGAIN...what exactly were the charges against us that were PROVEN by the complainants and that specifically warranted suspension? I think EVERYONE now wants to know…not just us!

We all see you also like to cherry pick false statements, innuendos, and unproven accusations to form an opinion and use them as you like….in our case….to rule on something you were NOT entitled or chartered to rule on.

You do realize that the Cooley’s will have to answer to slander charges in the state of Colorado in the coming year…don’t you? I wonder, do you also realize that you are now perpetuating that slander, by foolishly posted quotes and private e-mails taken out of context out there such as you have?

I assume you fancy yourself a wise man. A wise man in a case such as this might consider getting himself a good attorney and checking with that attorney before he posts private e-mails again about someone else that are defamatory. Something tells me, your attorney may not be comfortable with your latest post! The Cooley’s neglected to do that and now they must answer to a District Judge in Colorado over it. Would you like to be next?

I know you don’t like to listen to Lucille Inman, as she is beneath you, but Lucille did point out that you are NOT protected by the BCA from a civil suit against YOU for you actions (nor is any other Div IV board member)!

Keep it up Lt. Dan, you’re doing a GREAT job!

Are there any more wise Div IV board members out there that want to step up now and insert foot in mouth?

Patrick

No Cati you won't and to blindly follow based on friendship only leaves you and your membership open to the same abuse if you anger those in charge when they abuse the power in trusted in them.
I am sure the Mytoy people and Zack Lane and people of that caliber will agree with you but it won't change the facts...and intelligent people deal in facts.
So come on..where are the gossip hounds? They will be here anytime to support, blindly, your rally call.....

Jo

Debbie,

Shouldn't you take this up with the BCA National Executive Officers. They were the ones who ruled on your situation and pulled your chair as BCA Education Chairperson. Not Kevin. Kevin had a very valid complaint as did many when they saw the direction the BCA Education list was going. Your list was being used for witch hunts and you were in fact participating. This to me is not about education and not what I would want the BCA name and logo associated with. Just my two cents.

Dennis
MyToy Bulldogs
www.mytoybulldogs.com
http://www.mytoybulldogs.com


Just to let
by debbie (Login samsted)
Bulldogsworld Show Forum
everyone know it was also KEVIN RILEY that wrote a letter about me & another BCA member to the Executive committee back in January and to this DATE I have YET TO SEEN THIS LETTER. So, is BCA following the Contitution & By Laws???? Even in the court of law you do get to see the evidence against you.

Debbie Steding



MyToyBulldogs
http://www.mytoybulldogs.com

Your NOT getting an answer because they DON'T have one.

everyone know it was also KEVIN RILEY that wrote a letter about me & another BCA member to the Executive committee back in January and to this DATE I have YET TO SEEN THIS LETTER. So, is BCA following the Contitution & By Laws???? Even in the court of law you do get to see the evidence against you.

Debbie Steding

Wow - for a board that refuses to put the allegations proven and how they violated the constitution and bylaws in writing, you're all certainly coming up with a range and wealth of explanations now - three months later.

Yes, Kevin, we tried to deal with this civilly and professionally, but apparently our request for a stated reason, based on the allegations in the package and the BCA Constitution, Bylaws, and Code of Ethics was too complex a request. Your and Dans mudslinging this morning, which of course ignores any testimony provided on our behalf, still doesn't answer the question.

First and foremost, nowhere in the complaint does the complainant state that she thought the certificate was for the female she bought, or that it was ever represented as being for the female she bought. Why? Because she knows it is not true. She states, "Vegas had not been issued a health certificate from their vet, so it was not accidental that we received the wrong certificate." Taken in two parts, this is a true statement, although it is open to be read into, which is what you did. Vegas was not issued a health certificate because when we went to the vet that Monday, as soon as she was diagnosed with a murmur my first instinct was that she wasn't going anywhere for a while. Therefore we did not ask for one. By late Thursday, after the Cooleys lobbied for three days to take her, and we finally decided they were adults who could make their own decisions, it was too late to get an appointment Friday to get one - the certificate, by the way, documents vaccinations and certifies the dog does not have any contagious diseases. You were provided with testimony that I twice stated to the Cooleys while they were in our home, and was acknowledged, that we did not have this certificate for her.

Per the "It was not accidental statement" - you were also provided testimony and copious e-mail evidence that we had agreed to sell them, and indeed prepared all paperwork based on, a healthy male. The last minute decision to treat the Cooleys like adults who could make their own decisions certainly led us to bollocks up the paperwork in some respects (for instance, by not updating our Health Guarantee to reflect the change in pup). We took full responsibility for those errors. But -you were provided testimony that the issue of which puppy they would take was left open almost until they left for the airport to go home - we wanted them to be absolutely sure that they were comfortable with their decision. So yes - the male's health certificate was in their paperwork - we'd obtained it for them the previous Monday before they ever asked for the female - and it had their name and address on it because you are required to fill that in at the vet.

There is more of an explanation than you deserve, as you're telling us that this was part of the reason you suspended us, yet no such allegation of what you "assume" happened was ever made.

Per your statement of a vet testifying about a Grade III murmur at the "first hearing" - what first hearing? We were only notified that there was one?

In addition, you are citing testimony from a vet who never examined the puppy. In contrast, you had the written log of the visit with our vet in which she documents telling us that the pup could grow out of it, or not. You were provided testimony by a third party at the appointment with me that the vet said this, and referred to it as a puppy murmur. You were provided by the Cooleys themselves with an e-mail in which she told us, after the pups first check, that the vet "verified" what we had told her about the murmur, and that he had concurred that "if the pup did not grow out of it," further diagnostics should be done at 6 months. But apparently you're going to believe what you're going to believe.

Finally, your statement that we "didn't feel it necessary" to be at the hearing - if the board actually cared to hear our side, I imagine the hearing might have been closer than a 2-day drive (950 miles or so). Or does that violate the unwritten Division IV bylaw that meetings can only take place in the state of Texas or over the phone? We have a toddler and a 3-year-old who we had scheduled, and prepaid, to take on vacation the week before and the weekend of the hearing. So my priority should be to cancel the only vacation we have as a family, forfeit that money, and strap two young children into a car for two days so we can see you face to face, rather than trusting in your intelligence to see the inconsistencies in the complaint and listen objectively to the testimony on our behalf? The complainants didn't need to drive 16 hours for their side of the story to be taken seriously . . .

So, having said more than your post deserves, I'll conclude by pointing out that you, as a Division governor, based your decision on your own assumptions about paperwork issues in this sale. You found us guilty of an allegation that was not even included in the complaint and for which ample testimony was provided that explained that inconsistency.

Sharon

I should add Kevin? That I find your breeding an elderly bitch to be misconduct and think that when this election is over, and if new board members are elected? I just might pay the 250.00 and file against you since I find your actions to not be in the best interest of the breed.

People who live in glass houses should NOT throw stones.


Jo

Dear Kevin,

Thanks for proving our point! So what was it that you and your fellow board members ruled on again?? What “actual” accusation/charge by the complainant(s) was PROVEN to rate a suspension??? Can you please throw that one out there as well? I think a LOT of people would like to know that! The precedent you and your “hard” working board members set by this is a VERY scary one. All members of this club should be concerned by what Kevin is now saying!

You can’t just rule on your personal “opinion” of a situation based on someone’s accusations and innuendos. Especially when they are NOT proven, and you have been told that they are misleading, inflammatory, and slanderous.

You and your fellow calibrators need to re-read the BCA constitution and its By-Laws. It is not your JOB to rule on whatever you feel like ruling on if a complaint is made such as that. You can NOT just take whatever you’d like to cherry pick out of 45 pages of slander and then say….your suspended.

It is NOT your job to LOOK for a reason to suspend someone…its your JOB to look at the specific allegations and if they are proven, and then and ONLY then to consider if it warrants a suspension BASED ON THE PROOF.

Lets assume for a minute that any of your un-proven accusations and opinions are true. Can you tell me where it states in the BCA constitution and its By-Laws that they are grounds for suspension? Please advise as to specific location and wording that supports what you ruled on!

Does the BCA constitution and its By-Laws state that a 8 week old puppy with a “suspected heart murmur” as diagnosed by just one Vet… can NOT be allowed to flown in the cabin of an airliner? If so, would the Cooley’s not be equally responsible for breaking such a rule that is set in stone in the constitution?

I realize Kevin that you don’t make mistakes, probably never have, and that you (as an elite “above it all” board member) could never accidentally send someone home with incorrect paperwork…but again…PLEASE tell all the readers here where it says a BCA member should be suspended for such a thing? And when you do, please provide them with the PROOF that we deliberately did such a thing with malicious intent to mislead the Cooleys!

Can you even think of a rational reason as to “why” we would be inclined to do such a thing? Why we would willingly and knowingly mislead a couple about a puppy to trick them into SAVING money by not taking the puppy they originally BEGGED for (at full price) without a “suspected heart murmur?” With that, WHY you or anyone would set someone up like that…?..., especially if they Co-owned another bitch with them that had legal obligations down the road. Don’t you think that might strain relations down the road some…maybe make a difficult situation when it came time to breed the bitch they already purchased months prior?

Your rationale makes absolutely NO sense Kevin! It only PROVES that what you did was WRONG!

YOU and the other board members have abused your position and power as “elected” officers in the Division. Not only that, but in doing so…you put the entire club in jeopardy of civil litigation. So once again, I ask the question to all reading…should someone like Kevin and flawed wisdom and judgment be worthy of re-election?

Oh, don’t fool yourself…..its personal Kevin! When you disregard the BCA constitution and its By-Laws (to interpret them as you please), then willingly, knowingly and deliberately help perpetuate slander of someone with NO PROOF…that destroys their hard earned reputation…jeopardizes their civil court case that they have invested nearly $20,000 on…and then won’t even give the courtesy of knowing exactly why…ITS PERSONAL!

The real SCARY thing here…is that “we” could have been anyone here. Any BCA member reading this now knows that if someone has a dispute with them…they can file a complaint within Div IV under the current leadership and effectively slander them with your help, destroy their reputation, and get them kicked out without just cause or any proof there of.

But don’t worry BCA Div IV members…the dispute between the Cooleys and the Lynns is a first of its kind! No other BCA member has ever held a grudge against another before. No one has ever had a dispute before, let allow a simple disagreement. Just as long as Kevin and the current Div IV board is in power, all are safe! This sort of injustice could never happen to anyone else.

Sleep tight everyone!

Patrick

PS: I’ll let Sharon address your thoughts and opinions on what we “should” have done with regard to attending your brain trust meetings…convient for no one who does not live in the state of Texas!

session. I dont understand what part of that you all dont get. IM sorry but non of this should be being discussed with anyone. So knowing who voted what, is just wrong. Knowing about what happen in the meeting is wrong, unless you were part of the meeting.

Take it private, legal or what even.

Some are pissed that i asked questions to make sure things were run correct, people dont like others asking questions. I also asked if any discussion with the parlamentarian happen to make sure that the meetings were run propper when coming to this discussion. I know this was not an easy thing to do, my whole concern is that it was run correct.

Vicky

Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly

http://www.rubarbsoap.com/
Bulldog Club of Greater Seattle
PHOTOS ARE PROPERTY OF LANGAGER BULLDOGS, YOU MUST HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION FOR ANY USE OF THESE PHOTOS FROM LANGAGERBULLDOG.

I think most would believe Lucille Inmon over you but then again how old was that bitch you had a litter out of a couple of months ago Kevin??? 2 weeks shy of 7.....that's right 7 years old and your breeding her....and your head of Breeder referral.....what a joke.

Jo

Doesnt change the FACT that the Cooleys BOUGHT and SIGNED a contract to the terms laid out by the Lynn's.
While some on your board may not have liked the terms, it was not an infeasible thought that the puppy could out grow the murmur as MANY do. The Cooleys took that chance to get a cheap puppy.

As for not wanting the information to be bandied about, let's ask this question instead Dan...

Have YOU ever sold a puppy that had ANY type of health problem?



Jo

Your totally incorrect about Lucille and she has no intention of being sued if it comes to that Dan.

Your welcome to contact her just as the Lynn's did.

As far as your insinuations? It shows how pathetic you are........

Like EVERYONE keeps asking Dan, why did the Lynn's get suspended?

Jo

That helps the betterment of the breed..staying in the dark while people use the breed for their personal gain....
Everyone who cares about the future of the BCA should care.

Jo

"But it does seem kind of funny that nobody can answer why they were suspended.. Heck, how about just saying why you can't say why they were... I think most everybody was emailed the contract and vet notes even if they didn't want to see them.. Just saying..."

I never saw any of those emails.. I am still way in the dark and really hope I can stay there.
E

Patrick, dont make this a personal matter between you, Dan and Elaine. There are 9 members that voted in that meeting to suspend after hearing and reading all the available information. Dan didnt add one of the many points that persuaded me to vote for suspension. According to the Cooleys and a copy they submitted to the board was the health certificate you supplied to the Cooleys so they could fly back home, 2000 miles, with the sick puppy that needed to be kept quiet and in a unstressful surroundings. The Health certificate was for a male puppy.....I will repeat that for clarification....
YOU SUPPLIED THE COOLEYS WITH THE WRONG PAPERS......I could only assume that you couldnt get a health certificate for the puppy that was diagnosed with a grade 3 heart murmur.....Not an innocent puppy murmur but a grade 3 murmur. The Vet who testified at our first hearing stated that a grade 3 heart murmur was a very serious matter......
I wondered why you didnt feel it was necessary to show up at the meeting to discuss this situation face to face with each board member(if it was I in the same situation......I wouldnt have thought about not showing up....no matter where it was being held).....Furthermore, I wondered why you just didnt make nice nice with the Cooleys and make this all go away. But I was just one of nine who were put in an uncomfortable position to make a decision on a fellow member. We knew this wouldn't be a good thing either way. But I take my hat off to the other eight members and facilitator that traversed these unchartered waters. You guys done good!
In conclusion, the Board heard witnesses, read statements, researched, cussed and discussed this matter for more than 6mos before we came to an unaimous decision. And in the end we voted for suspension.

well it was not you who i spoke with for 45minues.

Good luck in your div, its a mess and im proud to not be in the middle of it.

Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly

http://www.rubarbsoap.com/
Bulldog Club of Greater Seattle
PHOTOS ARE PROPERTY OF LANGAGER BULLDOGS, YOU MUST HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION FOR ANY USE OF THESE PHOTOS FROM LANGAGERBULLDOG.

First, I want to say a big “THANK YOU!” to all of you seasoned veterans out there who have shown this newbie what backbiting, two-faced, self-important jerks you can all be.

I’ve met most of you at shows, asked for advice, was told by you what a great organization the BCA and its members all are. And then as soon as you turn around, you can’t wait to shove each others faces in the dirt, kick each other in the backside, and spit on one another. Thanks for the great example you set.

You all say you are “in the sport because of your love of the breed.” That’s horsesh** and you have all done a FANTASTIC job of making it abundantly clear that you would rather act like spoiled children. And despite holding such high and holy offices in the BCA and talking yourselves up as Breeder Of The Year, in your spare time you keep busy by backstabbing each other. You guys should take a long look in the mirror and see what everyone else sees when they look at you. It’s downright despicable. Thanks for the wonderful example you set everyday for the new people in the sport.

And before you roast me too, I would like to say that in the two years I’ve been in the sport, I have met a few knowledgeable and gracious individuals – A FEW. But most of you that have been spouting the “nasties” in this post I have also met at the shows the past two years. It seems funny to me that you can be so nice at ringside and so nasty when you are hiding behind your computer screens. You guys deserve each other. Not one of you seems to care one iota about the gentle and sweet dogs you own – only that you get your licks in and act like an angry mob. What did any of these beautiful creatures ever do to deserve such mean-spirited and downright ugly owners? It’s a shame people can’t be more like their dogs.

Would you like to be called a murderer for taking a puppy with a heart murmur to a specialist? Isn't that what any one of us would do if we cared anything at all about a pup?

Dan is correct. Patrick,contrary to what you have been told,or believe. The Div 4 board made a unanimous vote to suspend. Furthermore, I made a pointto ask every board to signify thier vote verbally. It again was a unanimous vote to suspend. Kevin Riley

E,
Your understanding of this situation is not accurate.

Sharon

You don't even make any sense but good attempt to draw attetion away from the problem the Lynn's have suffered.

Jo

E,
Pressurization is what makes the inside of the cabin a manageable altitude. Most passenger cabins are pressurized to equal 2-5000ft, regardless of what the altitude outside is. Typically, the cargo area is too, but in the event of depressurization upstairs, the emergency procedure in many jets is to "dump" the air from the cargo area up into the passenger area. When this happens, dogs in the cargo area are dead, period.

Altitude is also the reason for lack of oxygen. As I'm sure you know, the higher you go, the thinner the air. The FAA requires all crews in unpressurized aircraft to be on oxygen above 10,000ft. When the cabin depressurizes to this point on a passenger aircraft, the O2 masks drop from the ceiling.

So, lack of oxygen and lack of pressurization are both issues that stem from altitude.

Sharon

It's interesting how you know so much and you would do things soooo different... maybe the Bulldog World should make you KING or QUEEN and then we can do away with all BCA officers or Club officers and we wouldn't need any elections, hell we wouldn't even need Judges or sheesh the AKC... all we would need is just you!!!!
What a lovely world this would be. RIGHT?
Terri
MyToyBulldogs

Jo, or whatever your calling yourself today. Lets set aside Kevins 6 year old bitch. Didn't you breed a dead bitch?? This kinda has me in an Up Roar.

Zack

Nothing but double talk Jo...
Terri
MyToyBulldogs

I agree not a great choice of words...
Terri
MyToyBulldogs

Why are you singling out Dan & Elaine wasn't there 9 people making this decision?
Terri

What the hell do you know??? You won't even post your REAL name...so Shut up.
Terri
MyToyBulldogs

What about the Cooleys buying a dog they KNEW had a heart murmur then demanding a refund after they chose to put it to sleep are you not getting Liz?
Then filing charges against the Lynn's with Division IV??? for letting them buy a dog they felt would out grow a murmur, with full knowledge that it had a heart murmur??????

These people were NOT victims.

Jo

We have had a murmur in a litter but NEVER BRED any of them. Just so there is no confusion.
Terri

$1000.00 on a dog with murmor and secrets not to tell is wrong. not a right and ethical choice. ways can be done to make it ethical. you missed the mark this time. stewart

grade 3 murmor will never grow out. 2 maybe. not 3. place the dog free or put down. was grade 3 disclosed or sugar coated. stewart

WE HAVE NEVER BRED A BULLDOG WITH A HEART MURMUR... GET YOU FACTS STRAIGHT..
Terri
MyToyBulldogs

But.. now I am just morbidly curious..and have some spare time..

"Have you, or any of your friends ever thought to ask yourself “why” someone like the Cooley’s would file a law suit concurrent with their BCA complaint? It’s a serious conflict of interest that can not be independent of the other. Have you ever asked yourself why they were so willing to subject this club to potentially being drawn into litigation…rather than just waiting until one case is solved to avoid putting these board members and the BCA in such an awkward position? You do realize that the AKC does not do such things, and only hears complaints such as these AFTER they have been ruled upon in a court of law".

My guess is that they are heartbroken over their dog? Why does it have to be a conspiracy? You evidently sold them a defective puppy. It died. Very sad.

"How about asking yourself, if these complaints did this because they truly and only care about the BCA and its code of ethics?"

How bout that they are heartbroken over the dead dog? And no one has really even touched on ethics here.. wisely I guess.. talk about another can of worms.


"They actually found the one and only BAD GUY out there in the club…and are just doing their duty to root them out"

Huh?
A dog you sold them died of a heart condition. What does one have to do with the other?

"Ever stop to wonder…maybe…just maybe…this was a personal attack to force an issue favorable to them...to blackmail someone maybe…a vendetta perhaps? Maybe it was as simple as an effort to see if this board would be dumb enough to do their dirty work for them?

They were sold a dog with a heart murmur that died. What is all this other stuff about? Issue favorable to them? Vendetta? Blackmail?
I am obviously missing a huge part of the story....
Forgive me if I seem out of line, but my questions are based solely on what I have read on this list. Remember that I was not privvy to any of the private emails between you and them, as so many out there seem to have been.

"If you truly care about this club and your close circle of friends on the Div IV board…you owe it to yourself and all the above to take a little closer look at the rue villains in this dispute".


How are the buyers of this poor dog villians? Do you want us to believe that they are? Again, this is only based what I am reading here.
As far as the board. I think I can take away from this that they felt like the buyers were dealt a bad deal by a BCA member and acted on it. I can't speak to the constitutionality of it all, but lets face it.. like it or not, nice people that you guys are or not, you screwed up. Period.
We all screw up. I guess the kicker is in how we handle it.
With all due respect, maybe it's time to slap yourself on the wrist instead of everyone elses? Sometimes you have to accept responsibility.
But I have to ask...
What did you do that pissed these people off so bad?
They got a puppy from you.
Does that make them bad?
They knew it had some sort of heart murmur but purchased it anyway.
Foo on all of you.
The puppy died. They are upset. I don't blame them, particularly if they were lead to believe the dog would grow out of it (that's a correct interpretation of facts.. right? Do correct me if I am wrong)
Does that make them bad?
I assume that you did all you could to help them with the pain and dissapointment they experienced by lending a kind and gentle ear to their plight as only the breeder and seller of a puppy that died could in a time when it seems to me a little kindness would go along way. Or was it a little different?
If the situation were reversed (and I mean substitute the facts as only you and them know them to be) would you be happy with them?
Really?
And if you complained to a club about being somehow mistreated (I am assuming they felt they were mistreated even after the purchase went down?).. would you stand by and be happy if that club did absolutely nothing?
Really?
I think instead of trying to ruin the parent club because of something you did you would try to make restitution to the heartbroken family instead of trying to take down a group of people who seemed to really only care that a puppy died and a family got their hearts broken.
At least that is what I am taking away from all of this.
I will always side with the dogs.. no matter who is involved, friends or not. This is not personal against you, but it appears to my feeble mind that you guys made a mistake.
E

Please re read you post Patrick...


"Just curious, have you ever done such a thing before Dennis? Maybe crossed a state line or two without a health cert for your dog(s)? For that matter, have you ever bred a puppy with a heart murmur before? I happen to know for a fact that you have for both cases. Ever heard of this statement:.”people who live in glass houses-should not throw stones?”

We have NEVER kept secret our litter from hell, thank you very much... I personally use it as a teaching tool... the difference is we re-place or refund monies from any puppies that have ever been in question... Again we NEVER knowingly sell a sick puppy. NOTE The line this litter from Hell came from is null and void.... Never to be bred. Thank you... Now look who is throwing stones... when I tried to help you guys long before you let this get WAY OUT OF HAND. You really should of given the parties in question their monies back.... how much education does that take??? Then all of this would never had happened. It's also Funny how you turn things around to be all Dennis or my fault or anyones fault but yours.

Do You know the difference between you and Dennis??? I didn't think you did.

Terri
MyToyBulldogs

again my opinion, i have no grudge against anyone on here, but looking at it from my point only as read, that concerns me personally a lot, i dont think those were good words to email a buyer or a good choice.>>>>>>>

In your email to the Cooleys of Thu, Sept 28, 2006 at 10:23 AM, Patrick wrote “BTW, I hope this goes without saying , and hope it’s not already to late, but we are “trusting you” like never before by selling you Vegas as she is right now. We absolutely must INSIST that you NEVER tell ANYONE about this puppy murmur she has…even if she does grow out of it in time! If it got out that we sell show puppies with known murmurs…it will stick to us FOREVER.” And later in the same email Patrick wrote “Don’t even tell [you] best friend who wants a dog from you/us someday…”

You specifically instructed the purchaser of the puppy to lie to cover up the puppy’s condition.


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I'm looking forward to talking with Lucille to see who she has actually talked to and what she has actually said since she voted to suspend the Lynns, as did every other member of the Board.

Isn't it getting tiring to have to keep remembering to sign your posts as Jo? Well at least you picked a short name this time, that must make it easier.

Dan

I've done my best to remain level headed about this, and not fall prey to the baiting going on trying to get a member of the Board to post on this public forum the reasons for your suspension.

I've explained why the Board could not just wait until any legal proceedings between the parties were resolved. I've referred people to the applicable sections of the By-Laws which detail the disciplinary process. By-Laws, by the way, that I had no hand in writing but that were passed by vote of the membership and approved by AKC. And having been elected to the Board of Governors by the members of Division IV I am bound to follow them.

I realize you don't like me referring to the By-Laws, 'cause you don't want to be governed by them. But as members of the Bulldog Club of America both you and I are. I'm thinking "Jo" is not, because I know she has not been a member for years.

As to my qualifications as a Vet Tech to interpret the By-Laws which govern the disciplinary procedures of the BCA, I'm betting they didn't cover that in flight school either. So it doesn't look to me like you have any advantage there.

So here goes, you asked for it and you got it. MY reasons for voting to suspend Patrick & Sharon Lynn from the BCA for 1 year.

I voted to suspend you from the BCA for 1 year for the following reasons:

Misrepresenting the diagnosis you received from your vet on the severity of the puppy’s heart murmur to the Cooleys.

This is evidenced by your referring to the diagnosis as a “suspected Puppy Heart Murmur” in both the sales contract and your email to the Cooleys on Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 11:02 AM, in which Patrick stated “Thankfully, ONLY that one girl (Girl #1) has a murmur!! The other 4 are fine, and the vet does NOT think this murmur to be what the others we had was. She called it a “puppy murmur” and was not at all concerned with it. She is of the opinion that it is quite common, and that our girl could easily grow out of it.”

Your own witness, Jeff Foley, who was contacted at your request after you rescinded your previously granted permission to the Board to contact the diagnosing veterinarian, and who you stated in your answer to the Board’s written questions was “a third [part] present throughout Vegas’s vet check”, stated that your veterinarian diagnosed the puppy with a Grade III heart murmur and at no time did the veterinarian describe the murmur as a “puppy murmur”.

The Foley’s were the originally intended purchaser for the puppy in question, but according to Margie Foley’s email to the Board on March 12, 2007 at 3:50 PM, during their visit with you on Sept. 25, 2006 after the diagnosis of the Grade III heart murmur in the puppy they had intended to purchase from you, Margie writes “After discussing this with Jeff and the Lynns we all mutually decided that placement of this puppy was not in the best interest of all parties including the puppy.”

Why was it not in the best interest of the puppy to be placed when the Foleys found out it had a Grade III murmur and they didn’t want it any more (as Jeff Foley stated that he did not want to take a chance on the puppy with the murmur) but it was in the best interest of the puppy to sell her to the Cooleys when they fell for the carrot you dangled in front of them?

As evidenced by your email to the Cooleys of Tue, Sept 26, 2006 at 5:39 PM which was captioned in bold text “This is who the (Name Omitted) ALMOST had!” with a picture of the heart murmur puppy below the caption.

And in your email to the Cooleys of Tue, Sep 26, 2006 at 9:36 PM, Patrick stated “What Sharon did not realize when she spoke to you , was that I had already had 3 interested “buyers” for her that I had spoken to earlier in the day. All 3 were pet homes of course, yet all were willing to pay us a discounted price of $1,000 for her…knowing that the chances are still VERY good that she could grow out of this and live a full and healthy life.” And further stated in the same email “We normally charge a placement fee of $500 just to put some value on them, but as this girl is NOT like the others, and more likely to be OK in time, I set it at $1000 as she is so VERY beautiful and anything less would be a steal for a pet owner…”

Though you knew it would be viewed by other breeders as unethical, you sold a puppy that had been diagnosed with a grade III heart murmur to a show home with the potential that she would eventually be bred and you would receive a pick puppy back.

In your email to the Cooleys of Thu, Sept 28, 2006 at 10:23 AM, Patrick wrote “BTW, I hope this goes without saying , and hope it’s not already to late, but we are “trusting you” like never before by selling you Vegas as she is right now. We absolutely must INSIST that you NEVER tell ANYONE about this puppy murmur she has…even if she does grow out of it in time! If it got out that we sell show puppies with known murmurs…it will stick to us FOREVER.” And later in the same email Patrick wrote “Don’t even tell [you] best friend who wants a dog from you/us someday…”

You specifically instructed the purchaser of the puppy to lie to cover up the puppy’s condition.

In the same email referenced immediately above, Patrick wrote “(name omitted) knows about this obviously, and she does spread rumors, so to make sure that does not happen, you will need to inform her almost IMMEDIATELY that your vet said that Vegas does not have a murmur anymore. I’d give it a week at most. Obviously, that may require you to “fib” some…but it is important in that it needs to be nipped in the bud ASAP just in case.”

Though there are many more details in the information provided both by you and by the complainants, just those I have listed certainly constitute “conduct prejudicial to the best interest…of the Bulldog breed.”

It is evident that you were more concerned with your “reputation” and holding on to the possibility that you could get a puppy back out of this puppy at some point, than you were with doing the ethical thing and keeping the puppy until the full extent of her condition could be determined. It was much easier, and cost effective, to shift the responsibility for the testing and care of the puppy to another party whose desire for success in the ring outweighed all other considerations. Just because someone wants you to sell them a pup that an ethical breeder would keep until a complete diagnosis is made, doesn’t make it OK to do so. And in my judgment your actions warranted suspension of your BCA membership for the period of 1 year.

Dan Bandy
BCA Division IV Board of Governors


So there you go. Print it off, fax it over, copy & paste it into an email, what ever you want to do to get it to those high priced lawyers of yours. I'll be awaiting their call, email, certified letter, whatever.

Scooter,

Please see my above post at the top of the board, these were written simultaneously. I stand by my above comments. I am bowing out now.

Dennis
MyToy Bulldogs
www.mytoybulldogs.com
http://www.mytoybulldogs.com

MyToyBulldogs
http://www.mytoybulldogs.com

"yes, altitude is very dangerous for the bulldog - many have died being shipped in cargo".

actually, altitude is not what kills (bull)dogs on planes. It's either from lack of pressurization, lack of oxygen, fear, leading to resperitory distress or some other crew error.
e

but I do know ALL of the facts. I believe it is you that is relying on hearsay. Too bad that this situation had to be dragged out like this. Coulda been resolved so simply.

If I should ever do wrong and my division people see fit to suspend me I will be utterly pissed at myself but accept the penalty with grace. I have complete faith in them.

Please someone..remind me to never run for a division office. Such a thankless job!

Nice post Dennis!

It shows not only your true colors, but your lack of education as well. The “Health Certificate” you refer too so ignorantly, as it is used in its official capacity… is intended for inter state travel of animals by land, sea and/or air travel. Its sole purpose is to insure that the animal is properly vaccinated as much as it can be…before it crosses state lines. It’s an official form, required by law (even if you are only traveling from dog show to dog show interstate). Its design is NOT to determine if the animal can survive such a trip, as it is to prevent any unhealthy animal from spreading any potential diseases across state lines.

Just curious, have you ever done such a thing before Dennis? Maybe crossed a state line or two without a health cert for your dog(s)? For that matter, have you ever bred a puppy with a heart murmur before? I happen to know for a fact that you have for both cases. Ever heard of this statement:.”people who live in glass houses-should not throw stones?”

You need to get over yourself Dennis. This is NOT about YOU, Terri, or a certain someone who happens to live in the same state as you that you have been at well documented odds with for years. This is NOT the Hatfield’s Vs the McCoy’s…and you need to back away from trying to make it as such. You just have to accept that for once…this is NOT about YOU!

What this is about…is “Right Vs. Wrong!” Its about why these Div IV board members can’t and won’t answer the burning question about why they did what they did, and why they can’t provide ANY proof to support justifying any of it. Its about the precedent it set, and the ramifications of it that could eventually be felt by all in the BCA. Its also about how they (and the Cooleys) have so willingly and foolishly elected to put the entire BCA in harms way of litigation that could potentially cost the club a LOT of money (if not destroy it altogether).

Have you, or any of your friends ever thought to ask yourself “why” someone like the Cooley’s would file a law suit concurrent with their BCA complaint? It’s a serious conflict of interest that can not be independent of the other. Have you ever asked yourself why they were so willing to subject this club to potentially being drawn into litigation…rather than just waiting until one case is solved to avoid putting these board members and the BCA in such an awkward position? You do realize that the AKC does not do such things, and only hears complaints such as these AFTER they have been ruled upon in a court of law.

How about asking yourself, if these complaints did this because they truly and only care about the BCA and its code of ethics? They actually found the one and only BAD GUY out there in the club…and are just doing their duty to root them out. Ever stop to wonder…maybe…just maybe…this was a personal attack to force an issue favorable to them...to blackmail someone maybe…a vendetta perhaps? Maybe it was as simple as an effort to see if this board would be dumb enough to do their dirty work for them?

If you truly care about this club and your close circle of friends on the Div IV board…you owe it to yourself and all the above to take a little closer look at the rue villains in this dispute.

This could have just as easily as happened to you Dennis. And if they are allowed to get away with this travesty…it just may someday. This…more than any other issue on the table is what ALL BCA members should be primarily concerned with here.

I’m disappointed Dennis. I thought you were better than that, and smarter than this. There is a real world out there Dennis...you need to poke your head out there a little more and take a look!


I'm not impressed!
Patrick

n/m

in my opinion Elaine IS a great lady.

Sharon,

I can sleep at night... I, along with co-owners, have sent two dogs overseas. Both are well loved and well taken care of. Both have done well at the shows in their respective countries. Both are adding to the gene pool in a positive aspect overseas. Both were completely HEALTHY when they left my care and are quality exhibits and representitives of their breed! Trust me, I would not have sent any dog of mine on a plane with a grade 3 heart murmur or any known heart condition.

You stated yourself that your first instinct was to hold on to the puppy after you found out about the heart murmur. That is why you didn't get a health certificate, not likely but your story. You should have followed your first instinct and had the puppy evaluted further before you did anything with her. Not try and pawn her off on a fledgeling Bulldogger for $1000 and ship her off without a health certificate, which she would not have been eligible for with a grade three murmur.

Sharon did you not state elsewhere on the net that you had placed the puppy? Now we are finding out that in fact the puppy was sold. Who is trying to cloud what issue, now you tell me??? Your story is inconsistant and although well spoken is in need of honesty. You know that what you did was not right.

Dennis
MyToy Bulldogs
www.mytoybulldogs.com
http://www.mytoybulldogs.com


And so you keep trying to cloud the issue
by Sharon Lynn (Login docksidebulldogs)
Bulldogsworld Show Forum

"No vet in their right mind?" "High altitude" in the pressurized cabin of an aircraft? Making this all about the money?

Put those judgements of yours in the context of the BCA code of ethics and the Constitution and Bylaws.

And since you want to play personal judgement games to keep the spotlight off your friends - yes, altitude is very dangerous for the bulldog - many have died being shipped in cargo. That's why we have never put a dog in the cargo area of an aircraft - that's why we have never accepted over $20K to ship a dog across the Pacific Ocean.

All about the money vs the best interests of the dog. Oh yeah, Dennis, let's go there . . . Personally I think that what two parties decide in a sales agreement is between them and not for others to judge - But that only applies when it's your signature, or that of one of your friends, at the bottom of the agreement, right?

But it doesn't change the simple fact that we have STILL, after the longest thread known to man and three months of asking, NOT been provided an "official" reason for our suspension - in writing, based on the Constitution, Bylaws and Code of Ethics, and addressing the allegations that were actually made in the complaint.

Sharon


MyToyBulldogs
http://www.mytoybulldogs.com

"No vet in their right mind?" "High altitude" in the pressurized cabin of an aircraft? Making this all about the money?

Put those judgements of yours in the context of the BCA code of ethics and the Constitution and Bylaws.

And since you want to play personal judgement games to keep the spotlight off your friends - yes, altitude is very dangerous for the bulldog - many have died being shipped in cargo. That's why we have never put a dog in the cargo area of an aircraft - that's why we have never accepted over $20K to ship a dog across the Pacific Ocean.

All about the money vs the best interests of the dog. Oh yeah, Dennis, let's go there . . . Personally I think that what two parties decide in a sales agreement is between them and not for others to judge - But that only applies when it's your signature, or that of one of your friends, at the bottom of the agreement, right?

But it doesn't change the simple fact that we have STILL, after the longest thread known to man and three months of asking, NOT been provided an "official" reason for our suspension - in writing, based on the Constitution, Bylaws and Code of Ethics, and addressing the allegations that were actually made in the complaint.

Sharon

Debbie,

First of all...No one went after me on list. I was only supporting the person who was being libeled without any facts. It was all make believe... yet it was allowed to go on a list carrying the BCA name and or logo. Once the facts were out, Kevin was proven innocent and the mob's fire was put out. Debbie the National Officers ruled on this, for the record, so please take your complaint elsewhere. I was against a BCA sanctioned list from the begining because I could see the possibility for disaster. The ingredients were all there... someone just had to start the fire. It didn't take long.

Dennis
MyToy Bulldogs
www.mytoybulldogs.com
http://www.mytoybulldogs.com


Debbie
by debbie (Login samsted)
Bulldogsworld Show Forum
Dennis,

You wanted that list to go away before it even started. Don't go there. I have proof. Letters from you and another.

I didn't have a computer from the months of January thru March. The motherboard of it went.
This was taken up with them & STILL TO THIS DAY NOTHING!!!!!! Not even a call from 'your' friend Kevin Riley or a letter from him. HMMMMM Believe me I'm very happy without it. BUT now was it personally because somebody went after you, him and another & you all were removed??? HMMMM

As far as the name BCA goes, it's not trademark & as the logo it was NEVER on there! I have seen the logo on many sites including yours. Should that the logo & name come off all the sites that it's on????

DEBBIE



MyToyBulldogs
http://www.mytoybulldogs.com