would love a copy of the research behind this...

my vets office. I live in IL. but she specialized in that aspect of vet med in Mich. before moving back to IL. I would be happy to see if i could get an article for you on this topic

I think genetics, enviroment, and food all can play a rle in water puppies.
Would love to see where you found this reserach, please share.


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I would love to see the research you are talking about.

Liz Pearson
Broadway Bulldogs

so im doing what i can with my girls to prevent it.

I also believe it's diabeties, just like women who have gestational DM. So cutting out the carbs, keeps the sugar down which keeps the DM under control and helps with the water retention. Kibbles are so full of filler, the last thing a bitch needs is to break down filler when they are prego

Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly

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we use it.


my friends vet told her that SB, Cleft's.... were hereditary. She breed one bitch to the same stud 2x's with folic acid no problems what so ever. So she didnt give folic the third breeding with the same stud. So the bitch and stud were used the same all 3 breedings. Well she had a cleft in the litter. I know it can popup at anytime, but she now uses folic with all breedings. She had never had this before, and her lines have been hers for more years then im alive.


They use what they need and pee out the rest. NOw i have said this before. If it's genetic, and you are giving folic to prevent an neutotube defect, you are not taking it out of the make up of the dog. You are prevending it from physically showing up in a dog who is a carrier.


Vicky

Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly

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I dont give my bitches Show Stopper, seems to always make their stools loose. I continue the Puppy Gold until the pups are weaned on the Bitch and wean the pups onto it.

we had never had experiences with water puppies and after having the two babies and struggling for a wee to save them..only to lose them in the end..it was very tough. So the next litter that we had I was a bit paranoid about it and with Peaches being loaded with puppies and seeing the way that her nipples looked I wanted to take every possible precaution to help prevent water puppies. So we took the cranberry tablet and dandelion root tea route. Whether these things helped or not..I will never know, but we did have 9 healthy puppies with no excess fluid.


Just-LoneStar Bulldogs

www.2008nationals.homestead.com

it's a natural diarhetic and balances pH levels.

Paula~

research? We have a current study going on right now and there are no results as of yet on this.


Just-LoneStar Bulldogs

www.2008nationals.homestead.com

to promote good functioning kidneys..we were told it would help pass excess fluids if they were carrying any.


Just-LoneStar Bulldogs

www.2008nationals.homestead.com

Where can I find the information to substantiate this? I wasn't aware of any.. I've been told it's hereditary, while others claim it can be controlled with a low salt diet and so on..

are genetics, not from any food choices we make, just to put some minds at ease. At least that is what research has come up with

another thing my vet and I argued about. As a newbie to breeding Bulldogs i asked him about this since many of my mentors kept reminding me to start it.
I did have my bitch on a prenatal vitamin ( which i feel has enough folic acid in it to prevent birth defect and do not feel the need to add in more unless there is a deficiecy) until about half way through (started giving it to her 3 months prior to breeding because some labs were not where I wanted to see them) when he told me to discontinue it. So i did, but during this time we were also having some complications and my bitch reabsorbed 2-3 puppies. I am almost 100% sure why this occured, its in hindsight and one of those things that really pissed me off. I leanred from this mistake and will never repeat the same action. I was ashamed beofre to even talk about this but i will say that i had no idea pregnant bitches should not recieve vacinations. In came my vet who said that in order to perform any surgery in that county the animal had to be current on vaccinations. So she got a parvo/distemper and a bordatella. Two weeks later she lost the other pups and was so sick I almost thought I was going to lose her.
So from here on out I am truly doing what i feel safe doing regardless of what my vet thinks. I now have a back up vet who will come to my home for anything i need.
Sadly we rely on vets to know and do what is best for our animals but often it is long time breeders who have been involved in the breed who are far more educated.



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I personally think its to do with salt but thats JMO. There was a good article on www.bulldogz.com a while back about it

Thanks Shelly -

or a fluke. I wonder if the health commitee has ever looked into testing pregnant bitches? That would be interesting, but I am sure costly and hard to find people who would be willing to participate.


You are right. Folic Acid is one of those suppliments that has a low toxicity rate and is a water soluable vit. But in some cases studies done on rats and mice had shown that in high levels there was kidney damage. Not enough to be conclusive as of yet. Also in the works is how Folic Acid reacts with other drugs and its effects on absorbtion. Many drugs have been tested already..but I am only keeoing trac of the ones I have used on my dogs like Tetracycline, Amoxi, Sulfasalazine ect.

So think about this as i know you feed alot fo these items:
Ok so you know that Chicken and Beef liver, egg yolk, wheat germ, brewers yeast etc contain good amounts of folate? So I often wonder if this is why so many do not see birth defects when using raw because they are getting that folate in the diet? I am not saying its always going to work out this way but , well you know what i mean.


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What's cranberry tablets used for? Isn't it for bladder infections?

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Wild West Bulldogs


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Shelly, I know you are big on Puppy Gold as are allot of other breeders. I still haven't used it thou.. Where is the best place to get it on line..

(a little late in the game)

Yep, but I'm open to new ideas.. I just want to know what works for other people..

As for the Folic Acid, I've been told that it's pointless unless you started giving it early on.. It makes sense that supplementing vitamins late in the game would cause problems..

Vicky, today I talked with a lady who's been breeding for many years. She told me that she switches her pregnant bitches over to raw. The brand is Bravo I believe. She said that since switching them over she has never had a water pup or clef pallet..Before that she would have them occasionally.. She was very, very convincing that raw was a great way to go. I almost thought I was talking to a sales rep, but it was just a breeder at a pet store..

pretty much the same thing..
same old regular food..add extras towards the end..in reasonable amounts. We tried the Puppy Gold with Grace and Sweetie's litters and I used it on the pups when weaning them.
We do give a prenatal vitamin and cranberry tablets the last two weeks of pregnancy. I used Dandelion Root Tea on Peaches because I was worried she had extra fluid..she was fine just full of 9 pups.



Just-LoneStar Bulldogs

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I feed their reg. kibble til I know for sure they are pg. Then I feed kibble (same kibble as it is usually all stage) plus I add a boiled egg, boiled gr. beef, boiled chicken. Not much extras maybe 1/4 cup each meal. I mix it up so they dont get bored. I do not add any supplements until the last two weeks then I add the Puppy Gold, it helps with milk production. I continue the Puppy Gold while they are nursing the pups.

Wild West Bulldogs


Pictures property of Wild West Bulldogs.

what are your thoughts on the folic acid?

now isnt it a little late in the game for you to ask this question now? Ok don't shoot me, I am just kidding!

My vet and I argued over this topic and we still do not see eye to eye.


He reccomends that the bitch at 3 weeks start getting extra calories. Until then she eats the same food as she was prior. At 3 weeks then he wants you to start by adding in more calories via more food or a puppy/lactating formula food. He does not reccomend supplimenting any vitamins as this time, especially Calcium, Zinc and Folic Acid. And says that the extra supplimenting can cause birth defects and problems during pregnancy.


Now I disagree somewhat. I do agree with the extra calories needed and think that puppy food is aneasy way to get those extra calories.
But i also feel that if the dog was eating a well balanced diet of Canidae, Innova, or Pinnacle the puppy food is not needed. These foods are already formulated.
But I will be the first to say i sure in the hell did not stick to what i just wrote here. Mia became so dang picky very early. I had to cook for her. So from the midpoint on she ate cooked hamburger, boiled chicken, liver, eggs, green beans, tomatoes, fortified oatmeal, baby cereal ect. I retty much tried anything. Now weather or not is was what was best? Who knows. I guess i always figure you know what they need via full blood panel. If the diets lacking you will know by your results. I has three of them done, one prior to breeding, one during and one just recently at the 6 month post pregnancy point. It has helped me determine what she needs.






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this way you know what they are getting. we feed normal kibble until they will not eat the kibble then they get raw. Raw hamburger for the most part.


We are going through this with Breve' now, she is spitting out any kibble and just eating the meat

Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly

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right from the start as she was so young with her litter (bred after her pyo incident) She's a picky eater and also had a weak immune system (my theory on why she was so susceptible to pyo at so young an age). The Puppy Gold has colostrum and other goodies to help fortify the immune system. I have just gotten more of it and have started Pip on a bit with her food as she should be coming into season in the next month or so and I feel she needs something to give her a "boost".

I also used the Puppy Gold on the pups and they did great--they were probably the easiest litter I've raised yet.

do you switch over to show stopper?