I am relatively new still...I had no litters for a lot of years despite trying...and I lost a bitch in a repeat breeding of a litter of only 2 who were wonderful...so...I waited and picked back up from there...and then no one took who was bred one year and the next year...all of them took and I had 3 litters in 9 days...and then another year+ for a litter of 4...then a year and half and a litter of 8(!)...and now I have 2 litters, one of which is a repeat of a champion producing litter. There are pointed get from every one of those litters, and some who got majors and then their owner didn't go on to finish them b/c life has a way of getting in the way sometimes...and I finished 3 bred by Champions from 3 different litters...and there are pups from the litters needing majors and pups that are just delightful, fantastic housepets and family members...including the pointed ones...they are in homes with families and people who adore them....
Would I someday like to be a 'great breeder'...well...I'm not exactly sure what that is unless it is someone who has a litter and half of it finishes or all of them finish all the time....b/c I am not there yet...do I put thought into every litter? Yes...lots of it...Do I have homes waiting for pups before they are conceived? Yep...not maybe for all of them b/c I don't know if I'll have anything...but always a few waiting for pups. And I have it in my contract that the dog returns to me, no questions asked, if someone can't keep them...and also that I will confiscate them if I hear of them being abused or running at large.
And everyone gets specialist heart and eye checks? Yep... and palpation of patellas and hips though I have not gotten to spines...I will get to the thoracic xrays this year...and I really should be doing the spines and hips but I hate to put them under anesthesia...oh...and thyroid checks done also: TSH and T3 and T4...or they don't get bred...and pups leave with heart and eyes done if possible besides exams and puppy shot etc.
I'd like to produce a couple of champions in each litter...that is a goal I am striving for still...I and my dogs are a 'work in progress'...and I will be to the day I cross the rainbow bridge myself.

Lorraine
If only I was as good a person as my dogs seem to think I am!
Find us on:
www.karismakennels.com

"And, I'll go ahead and put my 2 cents in. I believe that the numerous good breeders and the couple of great breeders that exist are ultimately harming our very goals of producing quality dogs and protecting the good name of breeders by the minimalist approach to breeding that is so politically correct right now. We want to bang our drums about these bad puppy mills, but we don't want to produce enough quality animals to make the need for the puppy mills to decrease".

Or maybe the "good" and "great" breeders simply do not have the time or facilities or the inclination to supply that insane demand.
Political correctness is not what many of them are thinking about I am sure.
Why not ask why there are not more "good" and "great" show breeders?
e

Good post Brett

MyToyBulldogs
http://www.mytoybulldogs.com

You could breed a single litter a year and be a puppy mill in my way of thinking. You could also breed a dozen litters a year and not be a puppy mill. It is about the quality of dogs produced and the care given to ensuring the quality of life they will have after they leave the breeders home.

The core of this question, "What constitutes bad breeding vs what constitutes good breeding?" is a very interesting concept.
How many of you realize that Blondie Beauty had 5 litters? I believe that Hobbyhorne Cinammon had even more than that. I realize that many of the HOF bitches have had more than the magic number of 3 litters.

And, I'll go ahead and put my 2 cents in. I believe that the numerous good breeders and the couple of great breeders that exist are ultimately harming our very goals of producing quality dogs and protecting the good name of breeders by the minimalist approach to breeding that is so politically correct right now. We want to bang our drums about these bad puppy mills, but we don't want to produce enough quality animals to make the need for the puppy mills to decrease. Think about it for a second, is it possible for a great producer to produce too much? There was a great article about this concept in a Canine Chronicle about three years ago.

We have never had more than 3 litters out of single bitch and we have gone as long as 3 years with no puppies, but it has not been about numbers for us but about personal schedule and finances.

Now, I'm sorry I probably won't have a chance to respond to the personal attacks that some will find necessary to send my way in a timely manner, because I probably won't be able to get on line until next weekend.

Brett

nm

Using a specific number of puppies or litters has been a favorite way for people to sart witch hunts within the fancy. How the dogs are treated, placed and the responsibility shown before, after and during the breeding process is far more important then the specific numbers involved.

I have a hard time believing that there's a specific number of litters/year that makes a breeder cross the line to puppy miller. If a breeder has one litter a year for a couple of years, then has five or six for a year or two, does that change their breeding policies? Do they put enough thought into each litter, no matter how long it's been since the last one? Do they breed each bitch responsibly, taking into consideration her age, previous litter(s), and recovery time? Do they carefully place any pup they don't keep? If breeding and placing pups is done with the best interest of the breed at heart, I don't believe you cross that line with numbers alone. JMO

Cathy Miller
Mars Hill Bulldogs
www.marshillbulldogs.com
www.myspace.com/mars_hill_bulldogs

to put a finger on...especially with all the co owning/breeding that is going on. And also some might have half a dozen litters a year for a few years if they have half a dozen breeding age bitches and then go years without pups.

as much as how RESPONSIBLY are they breeding what they have. How many times are they breeding each bitch? Are they breeding for the betterment of the breed--or the filling of their pocket? A breeder may have several bitches and breed multiple litters in a year, but can do it with care and concern for the breed. Do they stand behind their dogs? Etc....that would be more of my concern

Rod
You asked..."How many litters in a year could someone have before you start considering them a mill? Maybe they aren't breeding for money like a real mill does but more so to get that next champion or to reach that magic number for the hall of fame..."
This is only my personal opinion but if you have good show/breeding stock then you probably only need to breed 1 to 3 times a year... including co owned Bullies. It's hard enough placing your other babies in good homes as it is if you have only one or two litters a year...
As for the "Hall of Fame" that should come in due time if your dog are good anyway.
Terri
MyToyBulldogs

"Would I someday like to be a 'great breeder'...well...I'm not exactly sure what that is unless it is someone who has a litter and half of it finishes or all of them finish all the time...."

To me a great breeder is more about consistancy year after year.. not a lucky shot in the dark (a breeding that clicks)or a lucky "run" of just a couple of years.
There is much more to it, but it appears that many people base their opinion of greatness solely on wins and not on other issues like (among many other things) ethics, attitude, helpfulness and "staying power".
Anyway, I am much more impressed with the dogs and not the wins (right?). Some dogs win that shouldn't. Some breeders just always have really good dogs and while they might not be famous or have a number one dog, they are always there, year after year.
e

will get to the thoracic xrays this year

Get the entire spine done. There are some issues involving the cervical spine in some lines of dogs as well as the thoracic and lumbar.
e

I agree, there's so much more to it than wins ....

http://www.pbase.com/bullpooches