We were told "Oh don't get a bulldog - you'll never have a moments peace".

The worst thing we've had to deal with with our Dixon Bulldog (Thanks Rajeanna!) is those uni-bomber farts he can make! laughing

We go jogging around the block with him even - or down to the far end of our road and back. He loves it! He is getting so good on his leash now and loves to go outside and play!

He isn't "unathletic" or "crippled" or "ashmatic" or any of the other things we had people "warning" us about.

He is a sturdy, calm, attentive boy who my daughter loves and my husband is proud of. :-D

Angela <><

...was that he would be free of life-threatening or debilitating congentital defects for a year. I would assume that would include crippling hips, heart or collapsing trachea but our boy has excellent health.

Meaning that anything that came up would be noticeable by a year old. We also had 3 days for our vet to do her own examination although the breeder has an exam (and all shots updated) done before selling him to us.

In our case we bought an older puppy so he had just passed that year mark but she welcomed us to get our own vet exam, etc.

Angela <><

that came out bad!! haha, What I meant is I've seen alot of vets add up unnessary tests, cause they know the pet person won't question them!! (not in my experiance) but breeders who have sold pups(all breeds)

I have in my health guarntee that a dog would have to be returned to get a refund, or replacement.... although I would not take a dog back in reality. I walk around a 3mile lake in the middle of our city and ran into a lady with a 5yr old papion(her dog walked effortlessly the whole time!) she told me how he had bad patella's and the breeder wanted her give the dog back for her replacement dog! that is why I have it in my contract. If her dog(pet, not show dog) was 5 and had no problems walking 3miles soundly, should she get another pup and be able to keep that one???? I don't personally think so!!!

Kristie Barwick
http://www.symarunbulldogs.com

E's quote, "I just think we all should expect more and demand more" says it all. I think a great open discussion this would be. For instance do you rebreed a bitch that has produced say-a mange puppy. (A better one would be anyone who owns a stud dog and knows of issues that pop up from time to time, discloses it, better yet not breed it, but at least disclose it, and I'm not picking on the stud, it is the bitch side too, what I'm saying is when stud dog owners repeatedly hear(which they will) that a common problem is popping up, should'nt that be disclosed to bitch owners?)

I think having a discussion on what health issues are tolerated and which ones are not would be a good one. I bet the graph will be all over the place.

It would be nice to discuss things that would be beneficial to the breed/breeders who may be starting out so that they set their standards high to begin with. That's one way to begin some change.

I know we can never change the people who breed for $$$, which anyone that is breeding for the right reasons knows does'nt happen, but perhaps within the "caring" circle we can make some positive changes.

This is my philosophy also.

Wild West Bulldogs

Pictures property of Wild West Bulldogs.

I also understand strange things can pop up out of nowhere. We had a bladder stone puppy recently (only the second one in 40 years) and a pup with an eyelid condition that I never even heard of. Both seem to be doing fine at this point and the two dogs in question are happy in their homes. It is not an easy breed and even those who work hard at it still can come up with a problem from time to time. The idea is to work at making those times rare.
When people say they have not experienced this problem or that problem, I am inclined to believe them for the most part, unless I have seen with my own eyes something that leads me to believe they are not being accurate with their information.
The old addage "stick around and you will see it eventually" is not always true, there are problems I have never seen, although, if you have been around for any length of time, you understand heartache, that's for sure.
e

We do like everyone else and require a vet check within 48 hours of purchase. This ensures that my vet didn't "miss anything".

We generally do not sell puppies before they are 12 weeks old so we can see if anything pops up (cherry eyes, for instance, or redness to the skin). Most 8 week old puppies look great structurally and medically, so we just like to pad the time we have them a few more weeks to make sure we have not missed anything.

I don't breed enough to offer replacement puppies.

As was pointed out, these are dogs and dogs are prone to any given illness, whether purchsed through the best breeder or adopted from a shelter.

Maybe we have just been fortunate, but we have not had anyone return the dog for a refund. Yes, I've gotten calls about some red toes or skin in the summertime, but no one has demanded a refund for that.
We have been very tough on breeding stock and don't breed dogs that are not really really sound. I breed for my next show dogs (just like most of you) and with every intention of keeping at least one, so even the idea of selling dogs is not first and foremost in my mind when we have litters (anyone who knows me knows how much I hate selling dogs), but the point is, if I am breeding for a show dog, my selection process is geared towards what I consider high quality in conformation and health. The biggest health issue we deal with is is "moth holes" right before the big shows and up until recently, fertility issues. Before I started cardiac certifying the dogs, I used life span in my dogs as a reasonable indicator that their tickers were on the up and up.
While we have seen some hemi-vertebraes on x-ray from time to time (just like most bulldogs) they have never been clinical and we have yet (crossing fingers) to see a spina bifida puppy.

So, my answer to this question would have to be what would I do in case a dog was returned instead of what have I done. If the dog was a wreck, I would refund their money and give them the choice to keep the dog.
Not a whole lot more you can do. I just try to avoid dealing with that problem from the onset by breeding very sound dogs.

The tests we now do on breeding stock is for patellas (knees), we will get all the tracheas done eventually (we have done 4 so far), CERF for eyes, thyroid, plus my own criteria for what I want to deal with.
I personally do not understand why people even want to reproduce dogs with chronic skin, chronic ears, chronic eyes, chronic bad breathing, yet I know they do. I just choose a lower-maintanance dog, and by merely choosing that, I thnk I have reduced the chances of mass producing those issues.

The shame of it all is that so many people buy into the idea that bulldogs are just "supposed" to be unhealthy. This allows breeders to run amok because so many ignorant buyers are completely open for it.
If a problem comes about, the breeder can merely say "hey, you knew abut this breed going in"...
It's a perfect breed for Munchausen-by-Proxy owners.. I happen to think some people like the idea of owning a dog that lives at the vet..
Its also the perfect breed for lazy and uncaring and ignorant breeders. Bulldogs are not held to any sort of high standard in anyones eyes for the most part.
There needs to be a paradigm shift.. I have been saying that...
I just think we all should expect and demand more.
I have seen enough bulldogs in my life that prove without a shadow of a doubt that great health and longevity is easily obtained with just a little bit of effort.
Elizabeth

always looking for more info to add to my health guarantee. I think some vets are like mecaninics, and if I sell a pup locally its in my contract that the pup goes to my vet.

Kristie Barwick
http://www.symarunbulldogs.com

Since no one else is biting. First of all, I have the puppies thoroughly checked by my vet before I offer them for sale. If any have issues,small or big, the small ones are fixed before and I fully disclose the fixed problem with buyers. Some such as a cherry eye I will guarantee to fix again should it pop back up. If a pup has a big issue I won't sell it at all. I will find a great home for it where the new owners know exactly what the issue is and they are willing to take on the responsibilty of taking care of the puppy no matter what is required.
For pups that leave my home healthy, I give 5 days to take it to their vet and have it checked, and offer a full refund if not happy with the pup. After that I will replace the puppy should it be diagnosed later with a serious health issue. Plus I will not ask for the unhealthy pup to be returned as I know people fall in love with these guys. I feel if you are careful with what you sell and only sell healthy puppies, the guarantee won't need to be used. And I haven't had to replace a puppy or refund any money yet.

Lifetime?? That is unrealastic IMO. There are many older dogs that develope genic issues such as many types of cancer. Would that be included in your lifetime contract? Lifetime means lifetime regardless of young or old. If I purchased a dog from you and my vet said my 10 year old died of an ailment that was genetic, does this mean I get a replacement?

Kelly

Kelly Franz
BCA HOF Breeder
www.imperiousbulldogs.com

were your rotties registered???

Kristie Barwick
http://www.symarunbulldogs.com

and some problems came up......

It would make it so much easier on the bitch owner to either choose the breeding or change the route to go.

I dont see it happening.

Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly

http://www.rubarbsoap.com/
PHOTOS ARE PROPERTY OF LANGAGER BULLDOGS, YOU MUST HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION FOR ANY USE OF THESE PHOTOS FROM LANGAGERBULLDOG.

what a different direction the breed could go in, if people would just "fess up" to certain things that could "pop" up. The only logical reason they would'nt, would be loss of stud fees.(And I guess people gossiping/rumors, which should be exchanged with respect for being upfront))

Would'nt it be refreshing to call a stud dog owner and have them come out and say "well, you know the "two things" that have popped up out of x amount of litters is this and this. So if you've experienced it in your line you might want to choose another male."

That will be the day..........I'm holding out hope though.

only hereditary causing death....not too many vets would say it is hereditary if the dog is old, and they need their vet and a vet chose by me to agree it had nothing to do with age or anything else. Like i mentioned most ppl who get years of companionship would not expect a replacement at an old age (like over 5 for a bulldog).....if they did, and held me to it to replace an old dog, then somewhere along the line there must have been something that made them think I owed them. It would then most likely be in my better interest, whether I think I owe or not, to cough up the pup rather than have them feel I ripped them off, and bash me around the globe! We have thought about changing it to be "Lifetime, up to age 5" but like I said, we have never had to replace a dog yet. If my guarantee causes problems for us later, we will pay up, and then change it.

I dont see why a lifetime guarantee seems so crazy......we only did it because in the beginning we were already offering it on our rots(like many other breeders), seemed wrong to stop just because ppl think bulldogs are walking vet bills! If we change our guarantee we are just agreeing.





http://www.ThunderBullies.com

on giving a lifetime, i mean i respect you for doing it, but that is way to much in my books, im thrilled you offer it, dont get me wrong, but i cant justify replacing a 9 year old dog, if something develops that far down the line...



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I guess what I am asking is "please define a lifetime guarantee"
e

"If a pup has a non-deadly issue after leaving for their new home, that is the new owners responsibility...... or they can return the dog (at any age, no money back), if they are unwilling to provide vet care, and I will take care of it.
We also have puppy buyers sign a contract saying they will get health insurance, so non-life threatening issues would not be costly. Some insurance dosnt cover all health issues, claiming they are breed related. In such a circumstance, if the pup was in a good home that couldnt afford it, or if they only had the dog a month or two, we would most likely help them out".

This is a lifetime guarantee?
e

what defines lifetime? If a 10 year old developes a problem associated with age does that apply?
e

I guess we are the only ones who offer a lifetime guarantee?? This is something we always offered in the past with our rotties, and never replaced one yet........... one got cancer @ 6, but is still alive now @ 8....the owner is not seeking replacement, they had 8 wonderful years already, and feel they already got more than they paid for.

After talking with bulldog breeders and getting our foundation bulldogs, my husband asked me.....why dosnt anyone guarantee this breed?? I said to him, that it must be because they are 'known' for having health problems.....so I guess nobody wants to be responsible after they sell them!
We thought long and hard.....and decided... what makes bulldogs different and what kind of breeders would we be if we no longer offered that gaurantee. Maybe it will kick us in the ass later......but since we started with 3 very healthy bulldogs, we thought....why not.

I give 5 days to return a pup for a full cash refund. And offer to replace, if they ever die from a hereditary problem......in my contract I state that before a pup would be replaced, I want to know from their vet that all necessary health care has ALWAYS been provided(could not have been prevented), and that in their opinion it was a hereditary issue. I also state in my contract that if a deceased pup is to be replaced it must also be seen/autopsied by a vet of my choosing to confirm the problem. (a vet of my choosing because if they live in another city, it is unreasonable to make them come to my vet......I would locate a vet within their area that is recommended for the breed).

We dont breed often, so it is worded that if replacing a pup, it would be at our earliest convenience.

If there was a non-deadly problem before a pup has left our home, we would keep it indefinitely(and have), fix the problem, spay/neuter, to make sure no one EVER breeds it, and find a home that is knowledgeable about the problem and/or willing to learn how to manage it. No pup leaves without a clean bill of health from a licensed veterinarian, and all info and vet records are shared with prospective puppy buyers, we provide the vet's phone # as well.

If a pup has a non-deadly issue after leaving for their new home, that is the new owners responsibility...... or they can return the dog (at any age, no money back), if they are unwilling to provide vet care, and I will take care of it.
We also have puppy buyers sign a contract saying they will get health insurance, so non-life threatening issues would not be costly. Some insurance dosnt cover all health issues, claiming they are breed related. In such a circumstance, if the pup was in a good home that couldnt afford it, or if they only had the dog a month or two, we would most likely help them out.

To hopefully benefit the breed, to one day earn a reputation for honesty and high morals, and to be able to honor such a guarantee, we WILL NOT breed any dog that is not sound. Like many here.....we breed only for ourselves, in the hopes of getting a nice quality show pup......not to feed the public!

IMO - If you wont stand behind it....why breed it.
Great topic!

http://www.ThunderBullies.com

we have talked about this. If a certain line carries something, it sure would be nice to know so you are not double or trippling up on a problem.

Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly

http://www.rubarbsoap.com/
PHOTOS ARE PROPERTY OF LANGAGER BULLDOGS, YOU MUST HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION FOR ANY USE OF THESE PHOTOS FROM LANGAGERBULLDOG.

that always bothers me to, yes there are unhealthy ones, but that is a fact in all breeds, but so many have perfectly healthy bulldogs that never have any issues.. people should concentrate on those.

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I don't think the majority of people quarantee anything beyond a 48 hour vet check.
I guess thats why "over-educating" potential buyers on all the things that can happen and most likely will- comes into play, so they make an educated decision for themselves.

i go not beyond a year on anything, small ailments i dont do at all, while one trys to get a great litter, things happen, envirment, home,etc, stress, and those are not a fault of teh breeder. in my books.. if i feel it is, then i woudl make it right. you will however find some breeders here who dont offer any thing beyond 7 days.. i guess its up to each person and how they feel about things.

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I hope not! I really would like to know what others feel is their moral responsibility in health related issues. I'll start by saying that I will take back the pup and/or refund all money or replace a pup or dog, if it has life threatening/quality of life issues. I don't guarantee common bulldog "ailments." Is this fair?or not? If a dog develops a problem, at what age would you quarantee up to? And what about something like severe skin allergies? And what about epilepsy? What is fair, or is it the chance the buyer takes when they decide on a breed like this?

i think some things should be covered, but not every little thing, this is a dog however and dogs have things go wrong that when out of teh breeders posession may be the reason, diseases doganosed 10 days latert, injry,etc , which may not be yoru fault, for example, a well known breeder once told me he had a dog checked out, went to new owner at 12 weeks, by 13 weeks had hip dysplasia badly....lol...not possible, not being checked out teh week earlier, limping badly, etc, later a person told them the dog went down the stairs and had accident, why he was limping,

real serious issues, like grade 3 murmor, spinal defects, serious ones, any type thing that would several impari teh dogs abilty to lead a normal life and especially if not disclosed and it was known

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most i have seen require the puppy/dog to be returned for a replacement puppy from a future litter.

I give 1 week to get a vet check, if im covering anything it's in the contract. Each contract is different with each dog/bitch.

I had a puppy who they thought had a problem, i gave them the option to bring the puppy back and i had another puppy who was not sold yet. They choose to do more testing and the vet was wrong with the diagnosis. I also told them if the puppy did have a problem i would take it back and replace it now. If they choose to keep the pupppy if the problem was a true problem diagnosed by a bulldog vet then they could keep the puppy, if the life of the dog was shortened or lived less then 5 years i would replace the dog w/o any money from them. The diagnosis was wrong so it was not an issue.


I ask that i get phonecalls before any surgery or strange testing. I want to know that the owners are seeing a vet who knows what the heck they are doing.

The puppy mills, brokers and commercial breeders have puppies at hand to offer long life guarantees or other replacement guarantees. However most require you to give your beloved pet back to the, for god knows what they will do to him/her.

Vicky

Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly

http://www.rubarbsoap.com/
PHOTOS ARE PROPERTY OF LANGAGER BULLDOGS, YOU MUST HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION FOR ANY USE OF THESE PHOTOS FROM LANGAGERBULLDOG.