Does Show Potential Equal Less Healthy?
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Does Show Potential Equal Less Healthy?
Submitted by bcbullies on April 20, 2010 - 9:31pmThis will probably be a good topic for debate, as it's been coming up alot in conversations I have been having with local bulldog owners, and vets in my area.
There seems to be this misconception that bulldogs bred for show are less healthy than ones that aren't.
The analogy that I have been given is a longer snout is better for breathing, longer legs, longer neck, and the overall health of the dog isn't being compensated by the desire to "look" identical to a standard that may be detrimental to health.
As I read more, learn more, and listen more, I personally am getting annoyed by the assumptions.
My personal choice is a show quality pup that is as close to the standard as possible. I love lineage, I love researching the background of the dog, and I think it's a personal achievement, and a great benefit to a breeding program to have a winning dog that is close to the standard.
The vets I have spoken to mention their bulldog owners that come in to their practise and they say the dog isn't show quality but is much healthier than a genetic mess bred for show. (???)
I have understood that line breeding too tight, too many times, may result in some pups with genetic faults, because we are trying to maintain what we love, but in turn, may bring un-desireable traits to the surface of the breeding program.
There is a man down the road who has a reg'd bulldog with many, many faults, who is breeding to a male that has like faults. He mentions to my husband that his dog isn't for show, but her bad traits will make for " healthy pups". He mentions he's done his research and he knows what he's talking about. (yikes)
My husband told him we are doing the complete opposite. We are purchasing from a well recognized show kennel, we are campaigning our dogs with the hopes of a title. When and if the title comes is when we will make the decision, with the help of a seasoned kennel, as to what are next step would be.
When I have talked to numerous people, there is this basic assumption that show dogs have genetic faults and this is where the health issues began.
My family learned the hard way, purchasing a couple of bulldogs when I was growing up. The show quality dog never had one trip to the vet, while the other one was a 3500.00 nightmare, with many faults.
I want to know what you think. Tell me your analogy as to why a show quality dog is better than a BYB whether for show or for pet. I could point list the many reasons why I believe a show potential dog is better based on my past experiences showing and breeding another breed, but I would like to hear what other show people think. 
Thank you!
LOL! Ward
now thats a funny way of putting it "Pencils up thier nose" but completely understood.
LOL!
No, No, NO!!!
My purpose in breeding a litter of puppies is to breed the perfect Bulldog. This doesnt mean Confirmation only, I want a Confirmationally perfect dog that lives 20 years - without a single health issue and lets my twin grand babies stick pencils up his nose without him getting perturbed!
I believe that this is what all reputable breeders are trying to do when they breed a litter.
Ward
nicely put! LOL
n/m
http://www.ThunderBullies.com
analogy
I would say it's more like airplanes
they are very complicated machines and must be done just right. You want to fly in the plane that took a long time to make with tons of attention paid to every detail, made by builders with an intimate knowledge of how planes fly. You don't want some one who says, "hey it doesn't need wings or an engine! those things can break!"
J
I try to believe...
that ppl who breed to show, also have an interest in the health of the animal(the #1 ingredient in producing the best IMO), so are more likely to do testing on their breeding stock, than BYB's would be. I also tend to believe they would not purposely breed "problems" into their lines, that might be seen by others at shows(their own dogs or pups they sell for show). This does not mean dishonest folk arn't out there.....you need to use your own judgement as with anything else you invest in (car, house etc), and find a breeder you can have a relationship with, and believe you can trust to be honest with you.
Also, I agree with what was said about a vet seeing more BYB dogs than show dogs.......there are many more "mutts" than purebreds and many more purebreds than show dogs.....so I guess one could say, there are more healthy non-registered "bulldogs", than there are registered and even fewer healthy show dogs......however, that does NOT in any way, mean show dogs are unhealthy! (hope that made sense lol)
I have only been in the breed a few years, and am sure I will come across many obstacles on my journey to breed the best, but would not hesitate to turn a "show pup" into a spayed or neutered pet, if I thought they would contribute to the sad state of our breed healthwise!
Dogs are only as healthy as their breeder made them, no matter if they are mutts, purebreds OR showdogs, carefull considerations must be made in choosing any dog, and even then, things can be overlooked (skip generations etc).
my 2cents
http://www.ThunderBullies.com
You mean purebred?
Show quality? Depends on who's critiqing that paticular dog. I've met some people that has showed me their show quality pup and based on what I seen - It would make a fine pet. So, when you say show quality sometimes there is a margin of error in those 2 words alone.
Do I believe many of the people that breed for show dogs put more time & effort into studying pedigrees compared to just any BYB, the answer is yes. BYB simply do not care as they live off their dogs and not for them they could care less about pedigrees and more about money.
The standard is there for everyone to follow whether you show or not if you breed you better know it very well and study each part of it. It's up to you, whether to show or not. I don't believe show dogs are less healthy because when a person plans a breeding very carefully they want to be judgemental of their dog/bitch and the dog/bitch they plan to use. Health, faults, virtues, lineage, and sometimes there are genes that like to express themselves out of the blue and can skip generations, there is alot to consider when breeding any dog for show, I do not believe show dogs equal more problems. If there is a genetic problem, bring it to the surface do your breed a favor, speak up about it if faced with questions, don't hide behind it & breed on, That would be doing the breed a great disservice. After all we never got into this breed to hide behind medical problems that can sometimes arise. We should be honest about them and act accordingly. I am aware there are certain risks that are greater for any purebred animal especially when one does linebreed or inbreed. How do you think our great breed got here? Thank Man. As with everything you have your good and bad and certain risks you deal with. From where I sit my first Bulldog isn't any healthier than the dogs I chose to take into the ring & her pedigree isn't half as nice as what I have now.
Plus, when people tend to not address health issues but yet tend to keep pumping out puppies for sale, your just making it harder for generations to come to fix those problems, Often times double, tripling, quadrupling certain bad faults that could take YEARS to breed OUT, If you even can.
Just my 2 cents. - Kim
just another cop-out
Of course people who breed sub-par dogs are going to tell you their dogs are healthier than show dogs. But if you want something that looks like a boxer or an Amercian Bulldog, go get one of those. In fact, the "long nosed" bulldogs have their health problems too, yes, breathing problems included. Show bulldogs that are shown are not walking health disasters.. or they wouldn't win.. right?
It's common sense. Get a beautiful bulldog with a short palate, normal trachea, wide nostrils, eyes free of entropion, legs that are sound, skin that is clear and health and "voila" you get what amounts to a reasonable percentage of show dogs today.
Yes, many people breed "show quality" that has no right being bred. But to lump all show dogs together in that fashion is just another way to get unsuspecting people to buy dogs that are not good representatives. Its easier and cheaper too to get a bulldog of poor quality and start breeding her. To breed quality costs money.
There needs to be a perception shift, or we will all find ourselves in the same boat as the Europeans.. who have bought into this particular lie. You will see the end of bulldogs as we know them in Europe in the next 30 years (my prediction). They want long tails back, long noses back and they want to ban c-sections.
You see what the animal rights people are doing in regards to breeding bans. Just wait until they hear that this angle is being accepted.
Be careful what you believe. Let common sense be your guide.
Elizabeth
Health, Temperment and conformation
is the reason to be breeding.
I breed for the next show dog, but i will not breed dogs who are not healthy first.
the lenght of the nose or muzzel has nothing to do with weather the dog has an elogated palate, stenotic nares or a small trachea.
Also my vet doesnt see many show quality or breed dogs, not that he doesnt have alot in the practice, they are just breed better so he doesnt see them as often as say a lesser quality BYB dog. Does that make scense?
I dont want a bulldog who looks like a boxer, boxers have their own issues too.
What the dog looks like on the outside is just as importain as what is going on under the skin, IMO if they dont have the look, temerment and are in good health they why should anyone breed them.
My Champion HOlly was playing with me in the yard yesterday, i looked right down her mouth and in her throat when she looked up at me. I could see her whole size 8 trachea, no palate or anything in the way.
Vicky
Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly
http://www.rubarbsoap.com/
Bulldog Club of Greater Seattle
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