I was refering to the International shows that are held often in Canada...that is what i meant. I have several friends who got them in Canada in one weekend and you do get a written critique.
After reading my post i realized how it could have been taken wrong and realized that we were likely talking about 2 very different types of shows. I siad Canadian Ch and was refering to this type of show, not actually a dog finished in Canada. ok that settled.
sorry for the cunfusion and no harm done, i hope.

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oh and one more thing. I was actually not refering to my own dog. I was just trying to explain how people go about getting an International Championship. I am quick to say my dogs would not be competetive in Canada, trust me!

I am sorry if i have offended you in any way. Actually I was not trying to offend any of my fellow Canadians.
My statement was only based on friends here who have traveled to Canada to get thier Championships and all did in in a weekend or within 5-7 days.
So i guess I have always assumed that was the norm. It was not trying to be sarcastic or rude. And actually maybe its not even the same thing? These were the International shows? Is that what all Canadian show are? Sorry, guess I should do all my homework before opening my mouth and making assumptions.

no problem... I hear it a lot, I work my butt off with my dogs, and am proud to say they're all champions in the country I live in. I spend a lot of time watching dog shows on youtube... I haven't seen a huge difference. There seems to be a lot of competition from the states and different country's in our Canadian rings as well.


kristie

should of re read it, got home after Myah's 3rd party... 15 little bundles of joy and alot of coffie. LOL Its easy said then done, right. I know how excited I was, wasn't expecting it, and will probly never do it again.. the problem with finishing quick if you want to speacial your dog is, you have a dog with not enough ring experiance, that is now a speacial and expected to be perfectly trained in the judges eyes. If you start a pup younge and it takes alot longer, by the time there finished.... they know the ring well.


kristie

if you e-mail me the dogs info privately I'll check the dog out for you.

Margie@jambullsbulldogs.com

Margie

http://www.jambullsbulldogs.com/

http://www.myspace.com/jambulls_bulldogs

were the first things I enquire about absolutly, I do plan on keeping a pup I agree ya never know what your gonna get, one can only try to plan a great litter. You do the research and make an informed choice, the rest is not in your hands

nm

He may be stunning but it doesn't mean his offspring is gonna be something. Lets not forget about health, temperment etc. Your couch potatoe may be a more consistent sire and produce the next world champion.
Isn't genetics fun?hahahaha

from what I've read you couldn't get a International Ch. very easy through FCI because you have to win 3 different countries under three different judges AND it has to be one year from the date of the first to the last. It does not however matter the number of dogs entered into each event.

To me if a stud has a sire whose an Int. Ch. in 5 countries
Grandmother Int. Ch. in 6 countries
Grandfather a Eng. Ch.
and he is reg through AKC, FCI, FCPR, UKC, he has to be SOMETHING or why would someone spend all that money on him, ANYONE agree?

thanks for all the comments everyone! It was interesting

and thanks for the advice

you need to evaluate the dog....not that titles dont matter, but you want to make your decision on the overall dog, and what he will offer your breeding program. I would suggest asking to speak with others who have dealt with the breeder and/or the dog and see what they have to say.

http://www.ThunderBullies.com

that clears some things up!

http://www.ThunderBullies.com

I have to be a realist though.
In Canada we just don't have the numbers of dogs in the ring like other countries. Bulldog entries are much smaller.
I think it is much more difficult to win when there are 20 dogs in the ring compared to 6. However, if the 6 are tough competition it can take longer than a weekend.
The reality is our majors are easier.
It is harder to get an AKC title than a CKC title overall. I would like to see more of our Canadian specials have their AKC as well. If they are good enough to special here they should be good enough to get dual titles.
Just my opinion.

Rather embarrassing actually. Lack of communication between CKC and FCI and some discrepancies in the quality of judging.
CKC is still working with FCI on reinstatement.

http://www.fci.be/uploaded_files/international%20Championship_EN.doc


Just-LoneStar Bulldogs

www.2008nationals.homestead.com

I don't think a dog is an Int. champion with an AKC title and CKC title. You need one more.

I thought it took him two, my mistake.

http://www.ThunderBullies.com

you need 2 two point wins to acheive a canadain chamipion ship. sometimes you can have 7 dogs in the ring 5 of them being good, say were you show a class of 21 does it mean 21 are great?... its a ratio thing... more dogs doesn't always mean more better dogs right?


kristie

weekend or 4 shows in a weekend. So just like here you can finish a dog in a weekend. When you go to the shows and you have 1 or 2 dogs entered it takes a bunch to get to the 10points.

I know they were talking about atleast 1 show needed to be a 3 pointer to get a Canadian ch. I dont know if that ever passed.

It has been a while since i was in canada. FOr a while many of us from the SEattle area would go up for the weekend and show.

Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly

http://langagerbulldogs.tripod.com

PHOTOS ARE PROPERTY OF LANGAGER BULLDOGS, YOU MUST HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION FOR ANY USE OF THESE PHOTOS FROM LANGAGERBULLDOG.

"I can go take my dog to Canada and get a title in a weekend" if thats the case come on up and try!!! when people make statements like this it erkkks me! If I new I could get a title in one weekend I would put my words were my mouth was!! its like people who don't show there dogs but say they'd beat all the dogs in the ring! never make assumtions, when you do it I'll listen!


kristie

CH Whitehill's Frosted Flake... my male achevied his canadian championship in one weekend last year... 3 3 point wins, and a group 1st, total 14 points in one weekend. You were at that show! Kristie


kristie

Actually, I am supposed to make a trip out there for originally a couple of reasons but unfortunately, just one now. I would love to see the dogs in your area. We'll see when I get back from Europe.

Jay

around Toronto, not all big shows, but thats where most of the bullies are, and yes some get political wins, some handlers are well known, judges show dogs too, etc etc I think every country has their own obstacles but it basically boils down; to be the best, you gotta beat the rest!

http://www.ThunderBullies.com

It's truly easier said than done, Ivy. People have to realize that there is an entirely different set up in Canada also as far as which dogs are winning and which dogs are always contenders etc. There are Canadian handlers that are well known just like there are American handlers that are well known in the US. There a few breeds where the breeding and quality is very strong in Canada - and I'm sure that applies to every country.

I have never shown in Eastern Canada so I don't really know how it works there, in terms of dogs, handlers, judges, etc.

Jay

I was under the impression that an INT CH meant they obtained their championship titles in 3 countries? but have never seen that in black and white, and never understood what club/organization gives the title out then?? I really dont understand how that works.
I was only commenting on what Rhian said about getting Championships in other countries (than US) being easier to get....as well had to say something about the one weekend CAN CH thing, because I have heard this exact phrase said several times recently.



http://www.ThunderBullies.com

the dog I told you about that wins 9 x out of 10 stops a lot of dogs being champed up but if you have a really good dog you will get there in the end. Our boy has 1 challenge to go, he would have been finished some time ago but I have only been showing him in our area, we plan to travel a lot further this year.

Ivy,

The International Championship that I know of is when judges offer written critiques on the dogs and they have to be given a particular grade such as V1 or something like that and I believe the dog needs 3 of these ratings to earn an International Championship. I'm not certain of the details but this is what I have in my mind. I hear they are more casual. In reading your post and Rhiann's it seems you two are talking about something different.

Jay

Louise,

Do the class dogs/bitches in New Zealand have to compete with the Champions to earn a Challenge Certificate as they do in the UK? I believe in the UK, the Champion dogs/bitches are entered in the Open class and the winners from each class from puppy up through Open, including the Champions, then compete for the CC.

There were many great dogs and bitches in the UK that never finished or "made up" their Championships because they had to compete with the Champions since there is no Best of Breed class. This is why many great dogs/bitches there are not titled in many pedigrees. Also, in speaking with breeders/exhibitors/judges from the UK, the politics are difficult to deal with - some say worse than here in the US. A really great dog/bitch Champion that is campaigned in the UK can basically block many from finishing.

Jay

up here in NZ in 1 weekend and we are not a very big place and are getting roughly 25 Bulldogs at a regular champ show. The competition is quite tough. I would imagine Canada would be even harder.

I agree with you, Ivy. It is one of those things that is easier said than done. I've finished a few American Champions in Canada that did NOT finish in one weekend and they were nice dogs/bitches. A multi-BISS under breeder-judges bitch from the US did not finish in Canada in one weekend and a Group winning bitch also did not finish in one weekend.

Jay

"Note: to become a Champion in another county is not as difficult as it is here in the US, nor does an International title mean much, IMO. I can go take my dog to Canada and get a title in a weekend. Then finish her in the US and low and behold she is an International Champion."

I believe it is still more difficult to achieve an ENG Championship than an AM? but I could be wrong...If a dog were ENG/US/CAN CH??? would have to be a decent dog? no?
An INT title IMO means something! someone has worked really hard and spent alot of time and money to get there, and should never be minimized as "not meaning much" I do consider which countries the dog achieved the titles though, and yes, some countries are easier than others.

This has to be said: I am not sure the last time you showed here in Canada, and am not trying to jump on you specifically....but am really getting tired of hearing how everyone can get a title in Canada in one weekend??? Can these ppl please give me some pointers?? LOL outside of know the judges?? Sure, it can be done, but it CAN be done in the US aswell...I kept track of the CAN bulldog standings last year, and there was only one bulldog who finished in one weekend, Multi BIS, Multi BISS AM/CAN CH Legacy Take me to The Copa.

Unless you are only attending shows where you might have some political pull (which happens in the US aswell), or you bring a really "hotshot" US CH, this is not really true.
And it is much harder to finish "her" in one weekend when there are males specialing at all the shows with good turn out for bulldogs, class bitches hardly ever get breed over the male CH's and even when they do, not too many get group placements afterwards, even if the male they beat gets them every weekend?
I understand that years ago, you could 1pt your dog all the way to a CAN championship, that is no longer true and I want more of the old time breeders to realize this...
The differences are; that a major here is only 2 points not 3,(and you need 3-5 entered for a 2pt win)(IMO should be 3pts for a major). You need 6-9 for 3 points and 9-12 for 4 points, 13 or more for a 5 pointer.
Please note; most of our shows only have about 400 dogs total and I have only been to 2 shows (one being our specialty)where more than 12 bulldogs attended. Usually we get entries of about 6-9 including 2-3 specials;
-If 8 bulldogs entered (would be considered a good turnout here)
say 2-3-2-1 assuming no one pulls...WD would be worth one point, WB would be 2. BOW would get the WD up to 2 points, but would not increase if won by WB. if the class bitch got BOW AND BOS, beating the special bitch, or BOB (beating both special males too) she could get the 3 pt win....would have to do this all weekend(not likely), plus would have to place in group one day too, to champ in one weekend...and WD would have to beat the male specials to get better then 2 pts, again very unlikely all three days, and would need to place in group at least once aswell. The number of points needed to finish is 10, but IMO could be higher. I think the rest is about the same, need two majors and have to get points under a min of three different judges. Just wanted to clarify the differences, and state that champing in one weekend here, is no harder nor easier than in the US.

**I believe you need a title in 3 countries to be INT, not 2.

http://www.ThunderBullies.com

i will continue to do research on all this!

OFA is the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals and their website is www.offa.org. You can read about the OFA on there and you can also cross-check if indeed a particular dog does have an OFA number on their databases.

Honestly, I don't think it is very difficult to obtain an International Championship at least here, in the US. The competition is typically (making a huge generalization here) not that tough at those shows.

Multi-country Championships are nice things to have but in Bulldogs in North America, the best competition is in the United States and in different areas of the country also.

Jay

this question posted on Med forum too. What do the letters and numbers after OFA stand for? can you tell anything by them?

go to the website but it really didnt clear anything up for me. There is a stud dog in the U.S that is AKC reg with OFA and DNA certs. he is not an AKC Ch. but Intn. Ch. as is the rest of his pedigree. If he is AKC reg. should i be less worried? his pups are being sold on a consistant basis for $3495. They say his Sire is Ch. in 6 countries and Grandmother Ch. in 5 countries, so on and so forth. whats your take?

Google or do a search for the FCI and you'll find its website. On its website it says this:
"The Fédération Cynologique Internationale is the World Canine Organisation. It includes 84 members and contract partners (one member per country) that each issue their own pedigrees and train their own judges. The FCI makes sure that the pedigrees and judges are mutually recognized by all the FCI members."

This ties into the judge question below a bit since there are foreign judges that are licensed by their own country's version of the AKC and some are also licensed by FCI, if I'm not mistaken. As an example, I know right now, there is a restriction on Canadian Kennel Club judges to judge at FCI shows around the world. Why? I don't know.

Jay

there are a lot of Canadian specials that are American champions to. I don't think they were dragged around the ring for years in the states to get them lol, or I'd hope not anyway. allot more than American titled dogs with Canadian titles.


kristie

this male is reg. AKC and has OFA# and DNA#

FCI is transferable to AKC in many cases. The thing to be more concenred about is if you want to show the dog CAN the dogs registration be transfered to AKC. I would call AKC and ask questions about the particular breeder. Often FCI breeders are selling FCI pups because they are banned from AKC. So do your homework.
And research where the pup is actually comming from. things to know. Is it a broker here in the US who is importing puppies from Russia. If so please beaware that majority of those pups leave mom too early and the paperwork that was singed during the import process was fradulent. They sign off on them to be much older than they are so that they pass inspection.

I am not putting down all FCI registered dogs. I do know of several FCI and AKC registered dogs who are being shown. On the flip side many who import do not do thier homework and have no clue as to what this dog was going to end up looking like. They have not seen the parents, All of them were at least 70 pounds and nosey with beautiful foreign pedigrees that had Ch titles.
Note: to become a Champion in another county is not as difficult as it is here int he US, nor does an International title mean much, IMO. I can go take my dog to Canada and get a title in a weekend. Then finish her in the US and low and behold she is an International Champion.

I hope thsi helps.
Do ALOT of reserach.

check out my site!
K-9 Kozy
custom crate pads for your bullies
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