here is a picture of a rear with the proper rounded stifles that turn out, along with the hind feet that turn out;


Compare with a dog of over a century ago

here is a picture of a rear with the proper rounded stifles that turn out, along with the hind feet that turn out;


Compare with a dog of over a century ago

why the rear hocks/feet should stick out slightly outward.... why does that make a difference overall to gait or soundness

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I hope E will psot what she ahs learned in her research on this topic or anyone else for that matter.

For me, when thinking through it, I came to the conclusion that it makes sense from a strength standpoint when the bulldog was pushing off the hind feet. It made sense to me from the standpoint of what the bulldog needed to be successful in its purpose.

Harrold

why the rear hocks/feet should stick out slightly outward.... why does that make a difference overall to gait or soundness

==================================

I hope E will psot what she ahs learned in her research on this topic or anyone else for that matter.

For me, when thinking through it, I came to the conclusion that it makes sense from a strength standpoint when the bulldog was pushing off the hind feet. It made sense to me from the standpoint of what the bulldog needed to be successful in its purpose.

Harrold

the unique conformation of our breed is a result of centuries of them being bred for one thing and one thing only. If the dog was a good bull fighter, he was likely more highly regarded as breeding stock as we have to assume there were bragging rights in having the best bull fighting dog in the area.

In breeding the dogs that did the job the best, certain features started to breed true as a natural course of selection. While we do not know for certain how good fighting bulldogs moved at a trot, we do know that their style of attack was by crawling around to the front of the bull then springing up to his face. If they attacked at any other part, they were disgarded as unuseful.

When the original standard was written, letters of invitation were sent out to the last known pure bulldog fanciers to contribute their ideas on the features that needed to be preserved.

All of the features that are described in the standard had a direct correlation to the original function. Of course the breed was modified and exaggerated to "modernize" it, but the uniqueness of their anatomy was purposefully preserved.

One of those unique aspects was the hindquarters.

Remember that the original standard and all other standards in use today (besides BCA'S) call for "well rounded stifles". Not sure why the BCA guys omitted that in their revision, I sure wish they hadn't. I can say the same about changing neck length from moderate to short.
Anyway, the well rounded stifles that turn out, with the feet turning out as well, all contribute to their unique gait and as we have noted, is a trait that evolved with the breed over centuries.

It is important to not try not to wish your your bulldog to move or look like other breeds. Many people try to attach movement vernacular to bulldogs and it does not always work. Should a bulldog "drive" in the rear like a sporting dog? No, clearly the movement is different, because the anatomy is different.

Many breeds have evolved with unusual characteristics. The Afghan hound is contructed differently to other coursing hounds. If people with Salukis try to breed "short-haired Afghans", they would be doing their own breed a disservice. Just as an example.

When we hear that "the bulldog kept up with the Dalmation in the group..." should we really be impressed?
While it is nice to see a bulldog move with power and obviously with soundness, we cannot want him to move like any other breed.

the unique conformation of our breed is a result of centuries of them being bred for one thing and one thing only. If the dog was a good bull fighter, he was likely more highly regarded as breeding stock as we have to assume there were bragging rights in having the best bull fighting dog in the area.

In breeding the dogs that did the job the best, certain features started to breed true as a natural course of selection. While we do not know for certain how good fighting bulldogs moved at a trot, we do know that their style of attack was by crawling around to the front of the bull then springing up to his face. If they attacked at any other part, they were disgarded as unuseful.

When the original standard was written, letters of invitation were sent out to the last known pure bulldog fanciers to contribute their ideas on the features that needed to be preserved.

All of the features that are described in the standard had a direct correlation to the original function. Of course the breed was modified and exaggerated to "modernize" it, but the uniqueness of their anatomy was purposefully preserved.

One of those unique aspects was the hindquarters.

Remember that the original standard and all other standards in use today (besides BCA'S) call for "well rounded stifles". Not sure why the BCA guys omitted that in their revision, I sure wish they hadn't. I can say the same about changing neck length from moderate to short.
Anyway, the well rounded stifles that turn out, with the feet turning out as well, all contribute to their unique gait and as we have noted, is a trait that evolved with the breed over centuries.

It is important to not try not to wish your your bulldog to move or look like other breeds. Many people try to attach movement vernacular to bulldogs and it does not always work. Should a bulldog "drive" in the rear like a sporting dog? No, clearly the movement is different, because the anatomy is different.

Many breeds have evolved with unusual characteristics. The Afghan hound is contructed differently to other coursing hounds. If people with Salukis try to breed "short-haired Afghans", they would be doing their own breed a disservice. Just as an example.

When we hear that "the bulldog kept up with the Dalmation in the group..." should we really be impressed?
While it is nice to see a bulldog move with power and obviously with soundness, we cannot want him to move like any other breed.

Simple physics really.
The rear needed to propel the massive front upwards and accurately. If the feet were straight and WELL inside the width of the shoulders while jumping the dog would have great difficulty in controling the direction of the jump.
The other issue is the weight being distributed within rear feet close together vs. farther apart. The feet planted farther apart would equal better weight ditribution therefore greater jump height.

http://jamlerbulldogs.spaces.live.com/default.aspx

Simple physics really.
The rear needed to propel the massive front upwards and accurately. If the feet were straight and WELL inside the width of the shoulders while jumping the dog would have great difficulty in controling the direction of the jump.
The other issue is the weight being distributed within rear feet close together vs. farther apart. The feet planted farther apart would equal better weight ditribution therefore greater jump height.

http://jamlerbulldogs.spaces.live.com/default.aspx

The round stifle helps absorb shock in the rear, the same as a strong pasturn with proper angulation absorbs shock to the front shoulders and legs. I see alot of straight stifle bulldogs out there, as well as weak pasturns. Alot of breeders don't but enough emphasis on these two critical areas of the Bulldog. Proper stifles and pasturns extend the quality of life for our Bulldogs.

The round stifle helps absorb shock in the rear, the same as a strong pasturn with proper angulation absorbs shock to the front shoulders and legs. I see alot of straight stifle bulldogs out there, as well as weak pasturns. Alot of breeders don't but enough emphasis on these two critical areas of the Bulldog. Proper stifles and pasturns extend the quality of life for our Bulldogs.

If you watch correct rear movement, you will see each rear leg take turns sweeping in underneath the dog and out again in a C like pattern, if their feet faced directly forward, that motion would be near impossible. I look for well placed rear feet in a natural stack, it doesn't guarantee correct movement, but it makes it possible Watch some of the posted show videos and you will see a direct correlation between forward facing dogs and straight stifles as well...

If you watch correct rear movement, you will see each rear leg take turns sweeping in underneath the dog and out again in a C like pattern, if their feet faced directly forward, that motion would be near impossible. I look for well placed rear feet in a natural stack, it doesn't guarantee correct movement, but it makes it possible Watch some of the posted show videos and you will see a direct correlation between forward facing dogs and straight stifles as well...

why the rear hocks/feet should stick out slightly outward.... why does that make a difference overall to gait or soundness....I guess I have always been in breeds with hocks and feet facing forward and at 90 degree angle to ground (except for one leg of GSD) Not challenging it...just wondering what it is there for....movement? soundness? drive? strength?
?

Lorraine
If only I was as good a person as my dogs seem to think I am!
Find us on:
www.karismakennels.com

why the rear hocks/feet should stick out slightly outward.... why does that make a difference overall to gait or soundness....I guess I have always been in breeds with hocks and feet facing forward and at 90 degree angle to ground (except for one leg of GSD) Not challenging it...just wondering what it is there for....movement? soundness? drive? strength?
?

Lorraine
If only I was as good a person as my dogs seem to think I am!
Find us on:
www.karismakennels.com

During my time in Bulldogs I've seen several changes in overall rears. And I'm referring to degrees of things and numbers of dogs at shows exhibiting these characteristics.

If you go back to the 1998 BCA Nationals tape you will notice lots of straight rears. As in many straight stifles and straight rear legs. A few years later there was a noticeable shift to many over angulated dogs in my opinion.

And of course during these times there plenty of dogs that had very nice rears. Others may disagree and that's ok with me.

One thing I would say is that slight modifications from one generation to another are easier to achieve than wholesale make overs in short times. Know what's behind your dogs when planning breedings. Be cautious about not giving up your strengths when breeding to improve and working towards the perfect bulldog.

During my time in Bulldogs I've seen several changes in overall rears. And I'm referring to degrees of things and numbers of dogs at shows exhibiting these characteristics.

If you go back to the 1998 BCA Nationals tape you will notice lots of straight rears. As in many straight stifles and straight rear legs. A few years later there was a noticeable shift to many over angulated dogs in my opinion.

And of course during these times there plenty of dogs that had very nice rears. Others may disagree and that's ok with me.

One thing I would say is that slight modifications from one generation to another are easier to achieve than wholesale make overs in short times. Know what's behind your dogs when planning breedings. Be cautious about not giving up your strengths when breeding to improve and working towards the perfect bulldog.