It is genetic, but not all puppies in a litter will have it. I have an SB girl, the rest of her litter was fine. I believe that if a litter is born and there is SB, that should be the last breeding of those two parents. The risk to have more is too great. That is only my opinion however, others might feel differently:-)

Amy, Sophia and Isabella

It is genetic, but not all puppies in a litter will have it. I have an SB girl, the rest of her litter was fine. I believe that if a litter is born and there is SB, that should be the last breeding of those two parents. The risk to have more is too great. That is only my opinion however, others might feel differently:-)

Amy, Sophia and Isabella

Many Frenchie breeders regularly do Spinal X-rays prior to breeding. According to the Vet I use who sees quite a few Frenchie's (she has them herself), they seem to have more problems in the area closer to their necks, where Bulldogs more often have problems in the area closer to their tails (or lack of tails).
I discovered a pup from my last litter had something weird going on in her spine via X-rays, although she displayed no clinical signs of SB. So she was spayed and placed into a quiet, low-key home.
But my point earlier is, that if a dog has produced SB pups repeatedly, it is in the best interest of the breed to pull him from service.

Many Frenchie breeders regularly do Spinal X-rays prior to breeding. According to the Vet I use who sees quite a few Frenchie's (she has them herself), they seem to have more problems in the area closer to their necks, where Bulldogs more often have problems in the area closer to their tails (or lack of tails).
I discovered a pup from my last litter had something weird going on in her spine via X-rays, although she displayed no clinical signs of SB. So she was spayed and placed into a quiet, low-key home.
But my point earlier is, that if a dog has produced SB pups repeatedly, it is in the best interest of the breed to pull him from service.

There are different severities of SB and some dogs might have it, but show absolutely no signs of having it, and they could pass it on and have pups with full blown issues. I think this is all still new in the testing stage, and this will be a hard one to stop until the gene can be identified, then dogs can be tested before being bred.

Miranda and the SB gang in Toronto.
The spina bifida babies,

Pugsley

Piper and Rosco
And always Chance

And Matilda

There are different severities of SB and some dogs might have it, but show absolutely no signs of having it, and they could pass it on and have pups with full blown issues. I think this is all still new in the testing stage, and this will be a hard one to stop until the gene can be identified, then dogs can be tested before being bred.

Miranda and the SB gang in Toronto.
The spina bifida babies,

Pugsley

Piper and Rosco
And always Chance

And Matilda

I would love to find the genetic marker that causes SB so we can attempt to eliminate it from this breed. Of course, that would mean some well known dogs would not be breeding any longer.

Amy, Sophia and Isabella

I would love to find the genetic marker that causes SB so we can attempt to eliminate it from this breed. Of course, that would mean some well known dogs would not be breeding any longer.

Amy, Sophia and Isabella

maybe if all the breeders would dna their adults and litters that had a sb puppy in it we could breed an affected litter.... we would know...right now were so in the dark....will it fix the problem no....danes/dobes still have heart problems their is an ofa registry....dogs will still be breed that have hip problems...terriers will still be bred with eye problems..all these have a registry.....what i am saying if one responsible person says no more and then another...it will take generations but it can be eliminated..... if we just try to look at the breed and not the money we can all breed healthy dogs of any breed not just the bulldog....

maybe if all the breeders would dna their adults and litters that had a sb puppy in it we could breed an affected litter.... we would know...right now were so in the dark....will it fix the problem no....danes/dobes still have heart problems their is an ofa registry....dogs will still be breed that have hip problems...terriers will still be bred with eye problems..all these have a registry.....what i am saying if one responsible person says no more and then another...it will take generations but it can be eliminated..... if we just try to look at the breed and not the money we can all breed healthy dogs of any breed not just the bulldog....

since they were seeking affected dogs, related non-affected dogs and un-related, non-affected dogs. Sure hope the study gives some answers!
But I think you hit the nail on the head by saying "some well known dogs would not be breeding any longer". Seems there are several dogs who have produced SB (and other issues) that their owners are aware of, who continue to offer them at stud. This is only making it tougher on all breeders - we have deleterious conditions pop up and scramble for the reasons why. If only stud dog owners were honest with bitch owners, and honest with themselves.
That is the only way to make informed choices for the welfare of the breed, and the only way we will EVER get a handle on SB and other problems.

since they were seeking affected dogs, related non-affected dogs and un-related, non-affected dogs. Sure hope the study gives some answers!
But I think you hit the nail on the head by saying "some well known dogs would not be breeding any longer". Seems there are several dogs who have produced SB (and other issues) that their owners are aware of, who continue to offer them at stud. This is only making it tougher on all breeders - we have deleterious conditions pop up and scramble for the reasons why. If only stud dog owners were honest with bitch owners, and honest with themselves.
That is the only way to make informed choices for the welfare of the breed, and the only way we will EVER get a handle on SB and other problems.

those particular parents should not be bred to each other again and the pups from the litter are carriers and so no, they shouldn't be bred either. And until it is known which parent carried that SB gene, neither of them should be bred again period. Doesn't mean that they will never have another breeding, but they should NOT be bred again if they are the carrier of a genetic marker known to cause SB.

And pups do die all the time of non-genetic related issues. Of course the parents of those pups can be bred again, why wouldn't they be? But I am talking about known genetic issues that are passed on from generation to generation that cause disabling deformities. It is irresponsible to continue breeding dogs known to throw genetic issues such as SB.

My opinion only as an SB dog owner that a breeder posted on craigslist just to dump her instead euthanizing her themselves.



Amy, Sophia and Isabella

those particular parents should not be bred to each other again and the pups from the litter are carriers and so no, they shouldn't be bred either. And until it is known which parent carried that SB gene, neither of them should be bred again period. Doesn't mean that they will never have another breeding, but they should NOT be bred again if they are the carrier of a genetic marker known to cause SB.

And pups do die all the time of non-genetic related issues. Of course the parents of those pups can be bred again, why wouldn't they be? But I am talking about known genetic issues that are passed on from generation to generation that cause disabling deformities. It is irresponsible to continue breeding dogs known to throw genetic issues such as SB.

My opinion only as an SB dog owner that a breeder posted on craigslist just to dump her instead euthanizing her themselves.



Amy, Sophia and Isabella

dont repeat the breeding because the parents may carry the sb problem....but its ok to breed from the litter???? why because they dont have possible problem because we dont know how it is transmited??? does not make any sense to me...the bulldog breed has alot of issues and they need to be looked into....sb seems to be coming more of an issue or people who are just breeding are not taking care of the problem....if you selectively breed for healthy puppies you get a healthy breed.... if you hide your head in the sand and say well lets try this breeding.... why take the chance i was always taught to breed up...meaning breed the best....would i breed a puppy who came from a sb litter no but thats me....
throwing the baby out with the bath water....well look to london and whats happening their to the breed....i have a sb puppy i adopted....why because no one else wanted this dog no one wanted to be bothered with the problems....
remember its not the professional breeder who gets hurt...its the pet owner and kids who just loves their dog.....and have to put it to sleep because they cant cope with the health issues, the allerigies the skin...
their are enough bullies in this world so they will not become extinct....but any one taking the responsibility to breed should always have the goal of breeding healthy always as i say breed up....

dont repeat the breeding because the parents may carry the sb problem....but its ok to breed from the litter???? why because they dont have possible problem because we dont know how it is transmited??? does not make any sense to me...the bulldog breed has alot of issues and they need to be looked into....sb seems to be coming more of an issue or people who are just breeding are not taking care of the problem....if you selectively breed for healthy puppies you get a healthy breed.... if you hide your head in the sand and say well lets try this breeding.... why take the chance i was always taught to breed up...meaning breed the best....would i breed a puppy who came from a sb litter no but thats me....
throwing the baby out with the bath water....well look to london and whats happening their to the breed....i have a sb puppy i adopted....why because no one else wanted this dog no one wanted to be bothered with the problems....
remember its not the professional breeder who gets hurt...its the pet owner and kids who just loves their dog.....and have to put it to sleep because they cant cope with the health issues, the allerigies the skin...
their are enough bullies in this world so they will not become extinct....but any one taking the responsibility to breed should always have the goal of breeding healthy always as i say breed up....

I agree with your statement re care needed to "breed up" when considering breeding bulldogs at all, however I think we should examine each "abnormality" individually. Cherry eye, while certainly unsightly to see and uncomfortable for the dog to some degree, can be "fixed" surgically and should not affect the QOL of the dog for its lifetime, whereas Spina Bifida is a lifelong condition that carries additional concerns and additional financial burdens for the dog's lifetime. I'm not anti-breeding; I just want people to become more knowledgable about the breed including the risks before they decide, and include a commitment to "take back" any of their produce if needed during their entire lifetime! Too many years working with Rescue to feel otherwise.

I agree with your statement re care needed to "breed up" when considering breeding bulldogs at all, however I think we should examine each "abnormality" individually. Cherry eye, while certainly unsightly to see and uncomfortable for the dog to some degree, can be "fixed" surgically and should not affect the QOL of the dog for its lifetime, whereas Spina Bifida is a lifelong condition that carries additional concerns and additional financial burdens for the dog's lifetime. I'm not anti-breeding; I just want people to become more knowledgable about the breed including the risks before they decide, and include a commitment to "take back" any of their produce if needed during their entire lifetime! Too many years working with Rescue to feel otherwise.

the abnormality (SB in this case) is "recessive" but can be held in a bloodline for many generations, so unless you're talking with a long-time breeder the possibility of carrying the gene just may not be known. Its when you mate two dogs both carrying this abnormality that the chances of it showing increase dramatically...witness the one pup of the litter being affected by the abnormality, so this theory would suggest that its best to avoid using any of the pups in a breeding program but if one was determined to do so, then it becomes really important to acknowledge the risk and do a diligent search of the background of the stud (or bitch) considered for breeding.

the abnormality (SB in this case) is "recessive" but can be held in a bloodline for many generations, so unless you're talking with a long-time breeder the possibility of carrying the gene just may not be known. Its when you mate two dogs both carrying this abnormality that the chances of it showing increase dramatically...witness the one pup of the litter being affected by the abnormality, so this theory would suggest that its best to avoid using any of the pups in a breeding program but if one was determined to do so, then it becomes really important to acknowledge the risk and do a diligent search of the background of the stud (or bitch) considered for breeding.

they are put down as soon as the breeder see signs, so "you and I" will never even know their was one in the litter. Many of these pups die, due to other problems so you never know they had SB just they died.

SB, Cardiac & Trachea problems effect the quality of life as well as others, however these 3 the dogs die early and many times before they are off the mom.

So every litter who looses a pup can have something in the line, so we should never breed the mom or dad or pups out of the litter if one dies?

I know that sounds crazy however if you want to get down and dirty that is what is being said.

Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly

www.LangagerBulldogs.com

PHOTOS ARE PROPERTY OF LANGAGER BULLDOGS, YOU MUST HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION FOR ANY USE OF THESE PHOTOS FROM LANGAGERBULLDOG.

they are put down as soon as the breeder see signs, so "you and I" will never even know their was one in the litter. Many of these pups die, due to other problems so you never know they had SB just they died.

SB, Cardiac & Trachea problems effect the quality of life as well as others, however these 3 the dogs die early and many times before they are off the mom.

So every litter who looses a pup can have something in the line, so we should never breed the mom or dad or pups out of the litter if one dies?

I know that sounds crazy however if you want to get down and dirty that is what is being said.

Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly

www.LangagerBulldogs.com

PHOTOS ARE PROPERTY OF LANGAGER BULLDOGS, YOU MUST HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION FOR ANY USE OF THESE PHOTOS FROM LANGAGERBULLDOG.

I would hope none were sold to breeding or show homes and that the parents were never bred again either.

Amy, Sophia and Isabella

I would hope none were sold to breeding or show homes and that the parents were never bred again either.

Amy, Sophia and Isabella

about breeding. While I wholeheartedly agree that every effort should be made to breed healthy bulldogs, I am continually surprised at how quickly some are to "jump" on the spay, neuter, never breed, response.
One example - Puppy has developed cherry eye shortly before entering a show. Response - You should not consider showing a dog that has had cherry eye and should have him neutered to prevent further "defective" lines.
Again, while I strongly agree that everyone who breeds bulldogs should do so with extreme care and knowledge of the breed and any known true genetic defects should never be bred, I think often it is taken a bit too far.

about breeding. While I wholeheartedly agree that every effort should be made to breed healthy bulldogs, I am continually surprised at how quickly some are to "jump" on the spay, neuter, never breed, response.
One example - Puppy has developed cherry eye shortly before entering a show. Response - You should not consider showing a dog that has had cherry eye and should have him neutered to prevent further "defective" lines.
Again, while I strongly agree that everyone who breeds bulldogs should do so with extreme care and knowledge of the breed and any known true genetic defects should never be bred, I think often it is taken a bit too far.

and the pups carry both sets of genes, would it be reasonable to breed dogs of that litter with the possibility of passing on the SB ? I am only asking and wondering, and I hope research shows us differently some day. If it isn't genetic, then breed the pups if you want....as for me, I would not risk it.

I am only speaking for myself here, and am not a breeder to begin with. I don't know if this issue is genetic or not. I am only going by limited information about it at this point and may or may not feel the same way if I find out other information:-). I would definitely breed the pups if they were of breeder quality, if it is proven that SB is not passed genetically. Then I would have absolutely no issue what so ever with breeding those pups.

Ok, nuff bout that from me:-)

Amy, Sophia and Isabella

and the pups carry both sets of genes, would it be reasonable to breed dogs of that litter with the possibility of passing on the SB ? I am only asking and wondering, and I hope research shows us differently some day. If it isn't genetic, then breed the pups if you want....as for me, I would not risk it.

I am only speaking for myself here, and am not a breeder to begin with. I don't know if this issue is genetic or not. I am only going by limited information about it at this point and may or may not feel the same way if I find out other information:-). I would definitely breed the pups if they were of breeder quality, if it is proven that SB is not passed genetically. Then I would have absolutely no issue what so ever with breeding those pups.

Ok, nuff bout that from me:-)

Amy, Sophia and Isabella

I guess I should clarify. I would NOT breed that female to that male again. It would seem that one of them has something that brought about the SB. It is genetic I believe, and Isabella is involved with a study to see if genetic markers can be found to back up the theory.

I would not breed those two particular dogs again, but I also would be leery, and this is my opinion, of breeding pups from that litter who carry both sets of genes...ones of which possibly caused this issue. If the stud or bitch owner wished to breed to other dogs, then so be it. But if another litter comes up with SB from the same parent, though with a different mate, then that particular parent should not be bred again as it is the potential carrier of that gene then. Do you know what I mean?



Amy, Sophia and Isabella

I guess I should clarify. I would NOT breed that female to that male again. It would seem that one of them has something that brought about the SB. It is genetic I believe, and Isabella is involved with a study to see if genetic markers can be found to back up the theory.

I would not breed those two particular dogs again, but I also would be leery, and this is my opinion, of breeding pups from that litter who carry both sets of genes...ones of which possibly caused this issue. If the stud or bitch owner wished to breed to other dogs, then so be it. But if another litter comes up with SB from the same parent, though with a different mate, then that particular parent should not be bred again as it is the potential carrier of that gene then. Do you know what I mean?



Amy, Sophia and Isabella

I think they are fine to breed, but not the parents. The whole litter should not be fixed because of this, because eventually no dogs could be bred, but the parents should not be bred again, unless you know which parent it was, and fix just the one.

Miranda and the SB gang in Toronto.
The spina bifida babies,

Pugsley

Piper and Rosco
And always Chance

And Matilda

I think they are fine to breed, but not the parents. The whole litter should not be fixed because of this, because eventually no dogs could be bred, but the parents should not be bred again, unless you know which parent it was, and fix just the one.

Miranda and the SB gang in Toronto.
The spina bifida babies,

Pugsley

Piper and Rosco
And always Chance

And Matilda

none of those puppies should be sold as breeding stock they should be sold as pets only....a repeat breeding should not take place....if either parent has another litter with sb and this includes the male not just the bitch...they should not be bred again....

none of those puppies should be sold as breeding stock they should be sold as pets only....a repeat breeding should not take place....if either parent has another litter with sb and this includes the male not just the bitch...they should not be bred again....

SB in bulldogs, but really didn't know anything about it. I saw an add in our local paper for English Bulldog puppies (which is fairly unusual in our area) and I knew someone who had been looking. So I called the gentleman who had this litter and he didn't seem to really know much about bulldogs but told me that one of them had SB. Sadly, this is an example of someone that should never have considered breeding.

SB in bulldogs, but really didn't know anything about it. I saw an add in our local paper for English Bulldog puppies (which is fairly unusual in our area) and I knew someone who had been looking. So I called the gentleman who had this litter and he didn't seem to really know much about bulldogs but told me that one of them had SB. Sadly, this is an example of someone that should never have considered breeding.

several factors come in to play with SB and other issues that come up at birth. Nutrition, enviornmental, littersize, or just **** happens.

To say the whole litter has to be spayed, neutered, not shown, is a big leap. If you have a breeder who says they have never had a problem in a litter you better find another litter who is a bit more honest.


If you have a stud that when breed to certain lines something comes up, heart, hip, sb, trachea or other problems, i believe its up to the stud owner to be upfront about it and pass you on to someone else or another line. If you have a bitch who something pops up in 1 litter, you can breed her again use another stud and if something comes up then it might be her.

At this point we dont have or use DNA markers to see where things pop up from, so its a guessing game.

If every breeder tossed out the baby with the bath water, NO ONE WOULD HAVE A BULLDOG AS THEY WOULD BE EXTINCT.




Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly

www.LangagerBulldogs.com

PHOTOS ARE PROPERTY OF LANGAGER BULLDOGS, YOU MUST HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION FOR ANY USE OF THESE PHOTOS FROM LANGAGERBULLDOG.

several factors come in to play with SB and other issues that come up at birth. Nutrition, enviornmental, littersize, or just **** happens.

To say the whole litter has to be spayed, neutered, not shown, is a big leap. If you have a breeder who says they have never had a problem in a litter you better find another litter who is a bit more honest.


If you have a stud that when breed to certain lines something comes up, heart, hip, sb, trachea or other problems, i believe its up to the stud owner to be upfront about it and pass you on to someone else or another line. If you have a bitch who something pops up in 1 litter, you can breed her again use another stud and if something comes up then it might be her.

At this point we dont have or use DNA markers to see where things pop up from, so its a guessing game.

If every breeder tossed out the baby with the bath water, NO ONE WOULD HAVE A BULLDOG AS THEY WOULD BE EXTINCT.




Vicky,
Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly

www.LangagerBulldogs.com

PHOTOS ARE PROPERTY OF LANGAGER BULLDOGS, YOU MUST HAVE WRITTEN PERMISSION FOR ANY USE OF THESE PHOTOS FROM LANGAGERBULLDOG.

If the other puppies are not affected right now, they will not be affected. I am not going to say anything about the puppies being bred or not ( the ones without the spina bifida), but those parents should not be bred again. And ask the people with the pup to find a rescue group that takes spina bifida pups, ask them to please not put him to sleep. If he can control his urine just not his bowels, he will be easier to place.

Miranda and the SB gang in Toronto.
The spina bifida babies,

Pugsley

Piper and Rosco
And always Chance

And Matilda

If the other puppies are not affected right now, they will not be affected. I am not going to say anything about the puppies being bred or not ( the ones without the spina bifida), but those parents should not be bred again. And ask the people with the pup to find a rescue group that takes spina bifida pups, ask them to please not put him to sleep. If he can control his urine just not his bowels, he will be easier to place.

Miranda and the SB gang in Toronto.
The spina bifida babies,

Pugsley

Piper and Rosco
And always Chance

And Matilda