IMPORTED PUPPIES-BUYER BEWARE! (long)
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IMPORTED PUPPIES-BUYER BEWARE! (long)
Submitted by admin on September 19, 2004 - 7:00pmHi! I am new to the forum, but I wanted to share some information with my fellow bulldog lovers. I have two bulldogs. My male is Mojo, and he is going to be 4. He is a comical, loveable speed bump. Chumly is almost five and she is my female. She is funny, sweet and sometimes a bit bitchy! She can run and jump like a border collie. I will always have a bully in my life.
That said, I wanted to take some time to get the word out about the IMPORTED
bulldog pups that are being sold on the web. A friend of mine in Michigan purchased a bully puppy (unbeknownst to me) from a woman doing business under the name "Bulldog Alley". She imports bulldog puppies from Russia, the Netherlands, and got knows where else. She then keeps the puppies for a week for "quarantine" reasons and then sells them to the public.
My friends were told that female puppy they were purchasing came from the Netherlands and were handed shot records that were all it Dutch. They were told that she was registered with the FIC-european equivalent of the AKC.
They were also told that they would receive papers in a few weeks. The breeder had no pedigree records on premises. She also told them she was expecting in another 10 imported puppies soon.
My friends brought this little girl home and 10 days later she was diagnosed with parvo. The vet told them to consider euthanasia, or they could be looking at a hefty vet bill. Upon contacting the breeder, they were told to return the puppy to her with the IV fluids and she would keep the dog in her basement and try to nurse it back to health. If the dog died, she would replace the pup. So they brought her the puppy.
Upon hearing this the first thing I did was tell them to get the pup back because the lady was not qualified to treat the pup. Thank goodness they did so. they are wonderful people and took the pup to the University of Michigan where the pup is being treated now. Most people would have just let the pup die.
I hope this story serves as a warning to other people thinking of purchasing one of these IMPORTED puppies. I checked out several web sites, and there are too many to list indivdually, though here are a few:
Mallard Pointe Bulldogs
The Bulldog Exhange
Bully Pups R US
Bulldog Alley
They are seem to use similiar information and tactics:
They have many different colors, etc.
Some of the pups are as young as 6 weeks (way too young to leave moms)
They accept credit cards
They say papers will be send subsequent to purchase
They have no pictures of parents posted on site.
They do say what breeders the dogs come from.
They claim they sell imported pups because the FIC (european AKC equiv.)
has higher breeding standards.
They all sell on a first come, first serve basis.
They will ship anywhere in the U.S.
They sell with full registration, which means another unscrupulous breeders
can use these dogs in puppy mills if they so choose.
I have seen some that offer a year guarantee-some which refer to it as a
"warranty" as though they are selling toasters-and some which offer
only a 90 day guarantee.
Anyone who knows what a reputable breeder entails, it generally does not
entail any of the above. I am still trying to figure out how they
mass ship these pups. Many of these sellers claim their love for the
breed and how they want to be able to provide people with high quality
bulldog pups!
All I can say is that if they loved bulldogs so much, they would want to be part of the breeding process from square one. We all know that bullies are a difficult dog to breed, and very expensive, thus not very profitable.
These importers are just trying to turn a buck and not have to deal with the
breeding process themselves. One of these breeders said that their imports came from breeders abroad that could not afford to advertise in the US. Then how in god's name did they breed these dogs in the first place?
I could go on, but I'll stifle myself. Please Please do not be temtped to purchase these dogs, even though the pictures they show on line are irresistable. Lord knows what type of problems we'll see in the breed when puppy millers get a hold of these pups!
TELL ANYONE YOU KNOW not to buy imported pups unless they are buying direct from a reputable breeder abroad. Thanks SO MUCH!-
Nancy, Mojo and Chumly
respond to imported puppy breeders
Bravo for posting this important info! As an owner of a russian bred bully( unknowingly until after the fact) I cant say enough about knowing what your getting in advance.I wouldnt trade my little guy for all the money in the world but be advised that in my case, his poor breeding has led to excessive health issues.Dont be as stupid as I was to fall for these tactics.
Bulldog Alley,etc.
I have seen a number of the people that you mentioned advertising on Puppy Find. I'm not insinuating that you can't find a good puppy on that site because I'm sure there are many, but if you pay attention, you will see that many of the people that are listing puppies there, have numerous puppies listed at the same time. In particular, Bulldog Alley, at one time had twenty seven puppies listed at once!! I just wonder how anyone, even with help, could possibly care for that many puppies at once. The conditions could not possibly be healthy. I've also seen Bulldogs R Us on there and a couple other ones that you posted. I know that that particular site gets a ton of traffic, so just letting everyone know, do the research! Have a phone interview and ask a lot of questions! Any reputable breeder with nothing to hide, will not mind answering any questions you have!
one importer
One gal who has one of these businesses swears it is not a business. Just a labor of love. Said she loves her bulldog so much that she wants everyone who wants one to have a bulldog too. Said healthy ones are hard to come by here in the states. She pays top dollar overseas to get the puppies away from those horrible millers over there...well so she says...and finds them loving homes here. Said she won't risk her own bitch's life by putting her thru c-sections. geeeeeeeeze!
puppies
just a note-if you know of any bullies in need in the Chicago area, I will be happy to foster, transport, whatever it takes. I have fostered many dogs over the years, so keep me in mind if need be. We are about 30 miles south of Chicago, and I have a wonderful network of dog lovers that help me out.
thanks-think I better give my fingers and my opinions a rest for the evening!-Nancy
as it should be....
Thanks for loving your bullies....
Imported puppies
We are very proud of our puppies.We send out pedigrees,pics of everyone,Mom,Dad.We also have our vet's email ,phone and fax no.available.If someone won't send you a pedigree,definately look elsewhere.
Re:Puppies
Kris and Nancy are both right.There are a lot of breeders in this country who only see the money.When I bought Mack,I thought the breeder I was dealing with was reputable.Then he developed demodex,bad joints,bad eyes,that breeder wanted to use him as a stud to one of her bitchs.Then i knew we were dealing with a money grubber.But until we can get some kind of legislation on the importers and these rotten breeders we will just have to try to educate people one at a time.I know that we all like to talk to people about our dogs.We need to be very candid about these unscrupulous thieves.I have a list on my computer of breeders who have caused the public a lot of problems.I don't hesitate to give it out when asked who to avoid.But on the other hand I know of good people ,too.I try to refer adopting parents to them if I don't have babies available.We ,as bully lovers, need to help people when we can.That's why I love this board so much.Everyone here tries to help with a suggestion or maybe just a comforting word.GOD bless you all and all those silly lovable pups.
imported puppies
I suppose you are correct, and I would invite an importer that resells in the U.S. to educate myself as well as other on the process. If what I have said is untrue, then I will be the first to admit it. If there are any such
importers out there, please contact me and tell me the whole process from soup to nuts, where the dogs are coming from, how they are shipped and at what age. Tell me how shots are verified and if the names of breeders in europe are given to buyers and if these breeders follow up on the placement of their puppies. Tell me how it is puppies are here at six weeks of age.
We all have different opinions on what ethical breeding is. I appeal only to the purchasing audience that has the same mind set as myself. If those breeders that import puppies think their method of selling puppies is ethical, than they simply chose to evaluate their methods by different standards than I do. I personally believe that it is my right to set my own ethical standards. Thank you for apprising me of your situation.
imported puppies
Thank you-I understand. When you fall in love with that little bundle of wrinkles you purchase, and something goes awry-you don't want a replacement puppy, you want YOUR puppy. It is more than your heart can bear!
I know there a different camps of thought. People say that those puppies from the mills, backyard breeders, etc have to go somewhere, why not into our loving homes. It is difficult to look the other way. I am guilty of just that thing. I bought my bulldogs 4 years ago in pet stores! I educated myself in reverse-what a dummy I am. Unfortunately alot of us have made similar mistakes. Having fallen in love with my bullies they way I have is why I am proactive. To imagine any of them coming from puppy mills or any background that is less than perfect brakes my heart.
I am definitely not trying to sound mightier than thou, because if there are mistakes to be made, I have made them. I simply want to learn from my mistakes and try to get these folks that are in the breeding simply to turn a buck out of business. Dogs, nor any live animals should have to suffer so that someone can turn a profit. I believe passing the word and educating people is the best way to deter these breeders. Don't buy from them, they won't sell them! Thanks again-Nancy
sure
they are idiots who sell whole litters in the Usa too - just usually for a whole lot more money! Idiots don't have to be of a certain nationality!
Kris, Butch and The BULLDOG ASYLUM
Visit The Bulldog Asylum!
breeders abroad
Goodness, you must have mistook the jest of my message. Absolutely there are breeders all over the world that are wonderful and love their dogs. I am only speaking of those who are selling their litters to people in the states who are reselling them. A conscientious breeder would not being doing this. Certainly they could sell their puppies internationally, but they would not have a middle man peddling their puppies. The reputable breeders both here and abroad sell their puppies to good homes they choose to sell to.
Think about it. If you were selling your precious pups, would you just sell a whole litter, ship them on a plane, never to know what home they land in?
If I were breeding, I would not! Reputable breeders also usually include a clause requiring the purchasor to return the puppy to the breeder if they are unable to keep it.
I hope this clear things up. I have known people that have done their research and located fabulous breeders abroad and dealt with them direct to purchase a pup. Absolutely above board! Thanks for your comment anonymous?
-Nancy
just curious
what if the breeders abroad are just like us? they may have mind and soul and are no different than us. why do we feel threatened by them just because they love their bullies too? im not trying to stir things up but just curious.....
be careful
Better be careful what you are saying. A few of us on another list are supposedly going to be sued by an import seller for saying a heck of a lot less.
WELL SAID
I went through something very similar when I purchased my first bulldog....broke my heart and changed my life.
Kris, Butch and The BULLDOG ASYLUM
Visit The Bulldog Asylum!
hoobly
It is hard to tell, because the breeders on Hoobly do not give much information. I would only even seriously give consideration to the ones that state parents are on premisies and proceed cautiously with questions. I have found with breeders that really know their stuff, they will have the right answers to certain questions. We just recently purchased a Newfoundland pup-my other canine love besides my bullies. I got to know who I did and did not want to talk with.
I know that sometimes people are put off by breeders who show and breed their dogs because they may think they ask too many questions and can be a bit upity. This is rarely the case. A great breeder with true quality or show potential pups is naturally suspicious because there are alot of unscrupulous breeders out there that will try to buy their puppies to breed when they aren't supposed to, or there are people who want to buy their bulldogs that do not realize the financial and emotional committment they are getting into. Truly conscientious breeders have been with the puppies from birth, and they would no more place them in a home they did not think was suitable, then they would their own children. Here are some questions I personally-my opinion only-would want to ask.
1.Did you breed these puppies yourself, or are you selling them for someone?
If the answer is no, move onto the next breeder on your list!
2. How many litters have you bred? Occasionally you will have a breeder that is looking to get established and is having a first litter. Any breeder of this sort should be able to provide you with information on where her bulldogs that she is mating or has mated came from and will usually have a kennel owner that is mentoring he or she on the first litter.
3. How many litters do you breed in a year?
4. How many dogs do you have on premises?
5. Where are the dogs housed? the adults? the puppies? If in a kennel do you show pictures of the facility on your website? Is it heated and air conditioned? (climate dependent)
6. Are the mother and father on premises? What made you decide to cross that paticular pair?-a really good breeder will answer with knowlege of genetics and that their were strengths from each parent that they were hoping to bring out in a new litter.
7. Sometimes it is a good idea to ask what vet they use for post natal care.
The vet can be called as a reference.
8. Most breeders that have true championship lines will post the pedigree of the parents and the upcoming litter. Pedigree should be given at the time of purchase, then transfer of ownership is registered with the AKC by the buyer-the breeder should provide you with the paperwork.
9. Do you belong to a local or national breed club? This does not always guarantee a good breeder, but does lend some credibility.
10. Do you OFA certify (Orthopedic foundation of america-certifies hips)?
Are the pups or parents cardiologist cleared?-not always neccessary, but a plus.
11. Do the parents have any skin, joint, eye problems? Any other health concerns?
12. Have you ever had a pup returned for health reasons, and if so, why?
13. How did you handle the situation?
The breeder should have a copy of their contract posted. Reputable breeders will generally make you sign a contract with limited registration. This would be to certify that you have purchased a pet quality puppy and do not have any intention of breeding the dog. If the dog develops into show potential, it is at the breeder's discretion to give permission to breed. If you are buying a show dog, then you will pay more for the full registration and will likely be scrutinized a bit more as a buyer.
These are just a few (LOL) questions that I think are good guidelines. Common sense should prevail when you get the answers. Hope this helps some of you who are shopping around!
On a lighter note, my bully Mojo and I are starting training for therapy dog certification in November-he did quite well his first session, though it was a chuckle and a half to see him in the ring with shepards, labs, goldens, etc. When I put him into a down position he flopped on his side like a shot buffalo! Guess he thought they REALLY meant down. Somebody forgot to tell the other dogs that it is much more comfortable lying on your side!
I will add to the forum as time permits-a bit more about me-I live in the Chicago area. We have about three acres, and a pond. Our dogs have it made!
They have a dog door to come in and out as they please. Besides the two bulldogs, I have 2 Newfoundland rescues and one Newfie puppy, who will also start therapy dog training soon. I have two boys and am married to a wonderful man who tolerates, if not supports my dog addiction. I am going to be starting a small private doggie daycare this year. I already have a couple of part time clients....what a great job!-Nancy, Mojo, Chumly (can't forget the newfs-Amos, Mooner, and Bogie Bear.)
I shared this message with my local club members.
Thanks, you said it better than I could.
what about this site called
HOOBLY? Check it out and let us know if this is safe.