2bds2010 avatar image

Raw food runs

So the bullies have had 5 meals so far raw and 1 has the most perfect little cat poops and the other guy has the major runs. Sorry to get so graphic but its bile in color and loaded with mucus. I did grind a few whole chickens bones and all, and have been feeding acording to weight which is 8oz. 2x a day. I have been adding probiotics also. I used a course grind on the chickens and can see that he is not digesting it and breaking it down. It's coming out the other end the same way it goes in......Im getting discouraged already. Poor guy looks so sad when he has to go....Will this pass or it is not agreeing with him???

I'm sorry that you're getting off

to such a poor start. Kofi had very little diarrhea to begin with. I started her out on mostly raw chicken breasts ground with some veggie glop and FortiFlora as her digestive enzyme. Keep it simple to begin with. The marrow in bones is very rich, so you may want to remember that for a few days. Diarrhea is fairly common when switching to raw while the digestive tract is being exposed to new bacteria for a time. In Carina's book she recommends adding a few tablespoons pumpkin (plain canned) with the food. It is good to absorb water from the colon.

As long as your fella seems to feel fine in all other areas, hopefully he will adjust soon. Every dog is different, I hope he improves soon. 

Also, you can give him Pepto Bismol to soothe his digestive tract.

Keep us informed, I hope this helps.

 

__________________

Kofi and Carol

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Also, on the mucus

a quote from Carina's book:

I noticed mucousy stools a few times with dogs just starting out raw. There is normal mucous in the intestinal tracy, and it gets shed as a matter of course. If there's mucous for several days in a row or this becomes a frequent occurrence, take your dog in to the vet with a stool sample to rule out parasites or digestive problems. 

I don't think I paid much attention to the big smooshy oops my dogs left behind when I fed kibble. Now I watch in horrified fascination when I see cheap kibble fed dogs ooze out these voluminous piles of smelly stuff. It is absolutely normal to get a bit obsessed about dog poop when you change to this diet. You are not alone.

Me speaking....I just love that gal!

__________________

Kofi and Carol

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DadtoMatilda's picture

pumpkin is awesome

Unfortunately, at least in the northeast there are no pumpkin products to be found. No canned, no fresh, no nothing. All of the stores have little red signs that say 'sold out'.

I did, however, find some on Amazon if you're into ordering over the internet. It is worth it. 

I will also say that we had all kinds of different stools when we were first switching over but now the keyword is "volume": much smaller. I think Judy had said in some posts further down what you could do for upset stomach and diarrhea when switching over, too. 

Make sure your guy is getting his fluids, too, is my advice. As with people, dehydration isn't good...

 

2bds2010's picture

Pumpkin

Added a TBS of pure pumpkin to his food tonight. Can't believe I had a can of it in the pantry. We'll see if that helps....Did the stools get better?? Are you still feeding the pre-packed raw?? or your own meat??

CathyandAudrey's picture

whole chickens are way too bony to be exclusivley fed

try a few days of just plain old chicken breast with the probiotics.

__________________

Cathy and Audrey  

kachoom's picture

Moral support

I don't have a ton of advice, but I can offer moral support, as your situation sounds kind of similar to my own. I have two bullies that have been getting Taste of the Wild kibble in the mornings, with Nature's Variety raw as an evening meal for several weeks. Recently, I made the decision to switch them to full raw and to stop using the pre-packaged type (Nature's Variety is comparatively affordable, but it does get very expensive for two dogs). Foolishly, I got a little cocky, because my dogs had no trouble with their initial transition to the Nature's Variety, and I figured that the transition to "real" raw would be a diarrhea-free breeze. Over the course of the last couple of weeks, I've been introducing a few "full raw" days here and there, mostly in the form of chicken leg quarters. Each time, I watched as both dogs joyously but meticulously crunched up their leg quarters and then went about their day with zero complications.

And then, this morning, I awoke to the most unnerving little squirting sound from over near the bathroom door. When I leaped out of bed and turned on the light, I saw one of my bullies looking apologetic as he deposited a hideous two-foot trail of dark, rancid, pudding-like poop on the bedroom floor. My husband and I were gagging so much as we cleaned it up that we almost started laughing. The other bully went outside and proceeded to produce poop that was a masterpiece, consistency-wise. I spent most of today alternating between watching Eddie (the poop perpetrator) like a hawk and researching diarrhea in raw feeding transitioners, half convinced that I was killing my dog. I'm still a little worried that I'm destroying his insides and very tempted to flee back to the familiarity of my previous feeding arrangement, but I feel a little better, having read that this seems to be a fairly normal reaction to digestive transitions like these (we'll see if this fortitude perseveres if the diarrhea doesn't stop soon).

My guess is that my problem has been the unsystematic way I've been introducing the food (i.e., doing okay on a half-portion of pre-packaged raw as an evening meal does not guarantee an easy transition to a full-time raw diet; serves me right for assuming as such). It's been too irregular, and when I've fed chicken leg quarters, I just gave the dogs a whole quarter each in the morning, figuring that this would cover both meals. I'm now seeing that this is probably too much too soon. So, I've decided to quit the kibble/pre-packaged combination cold turkey and to make sure I'm feeding two small (8-ounce) portions per dog per day. I'm planning on starting Eddie out with chicken parts that are higher in bone content, like backs, until his stools firm up (oh, dear God, please let this be soon). I'll give Alex (the other bully) backs in the morning and meatier portions in the evening, because his little iron gut still seems to be doing fine. Depending on how things go, I'll probably tweak from there. I also started them on a probiotic, hoping it would help make the process a little smoother.

Best wishes to you and your bullies as you make this transition - I hope things get easier soon!

Susie

Katie and Chumlee MN's picture

Susie

I enjoyed reading your post, with all due respect, thank you for the huge smiles and laughs.  I'm sorry your boy's tummy hurts, hope he gets better.

 

<3

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Skasqueeeeeeakaaay!!

 

Katie & Chumlee


kachoom's picture

Thank you!

Thank you for the good wishes - Eddie and I appreciate them a lot! =)

Susie

It is late, and I am somewhat braindead, but

I have read not to introduce the thighs and dark meat too soon. Kofi has been on raw nine weeks now and she has had chicken (white with and without bones), lamb and beef, fish and sardines....for the most part its backs with bone crushed when I don't grind.

I am new at this, but can not stress enough how we need to be very well informed before beginning to feed raw.

Once more, I recommend Carina Beth MacDonalds book: Raw Dog Food, Make it EasyFor You and Your Dog.

It is absolutely the greatest for Kofi and me, but I have stayed away from drumsticks and chicken thighs.

The best for you Susie. Feeding raw is such a pleasure!

__________________

Kofi and Carol

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And Susie, one more thing

Just go for it. Kofi never had the type of poops you described once we went full raw. Do your research and have fun! 

Please keep us posted too.

__________________

Kofi and Carol

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kachoom's picture

Thank you for the information

Thank you for the information about the thighs and dark meat being richer. I had heard about the skin potentially contributing to diarrhea because of the fattiness, but I was unaware of the other information. I'll try to steer clear of those cuts until later and maybe start by pulling off some of the skin before I feed. I also appreciate the book recommendation and will follow through on that. I've been a member of the Raw Feeding group on Yahoo for awhile now, which has been helpful, but it's very reassuring to be able to talk to other bulldog owners about this stuff. I need to listen to you about having fun with this - right now, all I've been doing is cultivating an anxiety disorder (seriously, I'm up at 5:00 in the morning, because I'm listening to Eddie's breathing/grunting/lip smacking/etc. as he lays passed out at the foot of the bed and am wondering if it sounds (a) normal or (b) like that of a dog who is slowly dying because I'm going about this process all wrong). =P

Susie

CathyandAudrey's picture

are you grinding the skin too?

could also be too much fat causing loose stools.

I have read that too much bone can cause loose stools, as well as constipation. 

There is definitely an adjustment time, for the dog's stomach acid to  get just right for digesting raw.

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Cathy and Audrey  

Good point about the skins

Cathy.

Also, the thighs and legs are much richer.

Hugs girl...

You and Judy really are the best mentors ever!

 

__________________

Kofi and Carol

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judy wilson's picture

ok.....

some dogs go thru a detox ...... one ground chicken is 32% bone which is way more than you need.....you want well formed bowels....so my first question..did you read the package of chicken...was it enhanced???? meaning was their sodium added to it......this is why i by my chicken from a butcher not a grocery store....i know it has no additives....

you need more meat than bone for the first 30 to 60 days....let the bowels get rid of all the chemicals and additives from the kibble....increase you meat remember thats 80% of what your to feed...keep the extra things to a mim....i would be putting a teaspoon of yougurt...for probitics....one or two chicken gizzards....you can add a tablespoon of pumpkin a day to help with loose stools...

dont try to much at one time...some dogs switch over very easy....some have loose bowels...and if they really stink its becasue their getting rid of the crap in their bowels...keep it simple....

now write down everything your feeding....so we can see...exactly what your doing...this is not an exact science...but let me see what your calling a meal.... dont give up....it only gets better and better... also are you    giving  snacks if yes what kind.....

2bds2010's picture

Here's what I did

For each whole chicken I removed most of the skin and the gizzards and stuff and  ran it through the course grinder. I also added to the whole mixture 2 hefty sized boneless/skinless  breasts to try to add more meat to the mixture. I thought it was a pretty good ratio....I read the package of chicken and it states no hormones/antibiotics or added salt mixture. I figured I would add in the organ meat seperate maybe 2x a week. I also add 3/4 tsp of a good probiotic to the morning meal. They are both getting an 8oz. cup 2x a day of this mixture. Also added the pumpkin to last nights dinner and this mornings. I have not feed anything else...no scraps, no treats, no marrow or rec. bones. since we started. I add Bragg's ACV to there water and change it at least 2x a day. I dont like to see raw floaters in it. I noticed 1 poop this morning and it was beautiful. But don't know who's it was.....So maybe the pumpkin helped. So do you think this meat mixture is ok to start?? or too much bone still??

Thanks for all the help......

judy wilson's picture

thats pretty good....

thats pretty good...use your gizzards...thats good for them...keep adding some pumpkin ......to much bone and your going to get constipation not runny stools...when ever my gu you addys get loose stools i always up my bone content.... how much avc do you add...read the label....  maybe add a bit less....as were getting rid of alot of fillers that coated the tummy...

marrow bones are fun they keep the dogs entertained so their ok...

give it  two days if one of the dogs is still having runny poop try to increase that dogs bone content...the other one seems to have a good ratio...

you can also add 1/2 cup of brown rice....this is not instant rice this is the old fashion reg brown rice....do this for three days....its a good binder....

2bds2010's picture

So relieved

I was getting nervous that we had no poops yet so I took them on a walk and everyone seems to be good. Both had good firm ones. I did see a bit more white in Cooper's  so maybe the next grind session I will add 3 boneless breasts to a whole chicken.

judy wilson's picture

when the poop is

white thats to much bone...cut back...but thats the way i guage it...white poop to much bone...loose poop not enough bone...keep going your doing good keep asking questions and you will get it...your dogs are heading down the right track to a long long healthy life.....