I am going to take the discussion below (palette surgery) in a different dirrection.
When I first started looking for a nice show quality male I was referred to several breeders one of which I bought a dog from only to find out later that his line had many hereditary problems.
My question is how do you go about finding information about different lines and breeders without believeing all the gossip from jealous breeders and not hurt anyone's feelings. I am somewhat new to the Bulldog scene and have heard other breeders bad mouth others and I sometimes get confussed as to who is REALLY telling the truth, it's hard to seperate the truth from the lies for the newcomer. I hope I didn't come across to people in the wrong way but I DO have a problem with breeders who breed 3-5 times a year. Why do they need to breed that much?, is it to try and get that next top 25 stud or are they trying to better the breed and have such GREAT dogs that they feel the need to breed their dogs that much. I have seen things personally in only 2 years of showing that really worries me. I have gotten to the point of just minding my own business at shows and don't want to get caught up in all the slander, I think going to shows and talking to different breeders is half the fun!. I would think if breeders were REALLY trying to better the breed the would be open about the problems they have in their line. I know ALL lines have some sort of problems or concern they are trying to correct and I would be cautios of any who claimed they didn't.
I also want to confess that YES my male I bought from a well known breeder had Palette surgery among other problems and I knew that when I bought him, I could have and did look else where. I WAS allowed by the breeder to show him but only after I begged and promised NEVER to breed him. I DO thank the breeder for doing so as I have found a wonderful hobby.
After losing him last November at almost 2 years of age it HAS made me VERY health concious and WILL do my best when the time to breed comes and I also know problems from many generation back can pop up at any time and doing my home work and praying is about all you can do.
OK I vented!!!!! I feel better now!!
Re: RE: Time and experience
Brian,
I don't think she's done her new camera since the one picture she sent me, that I forwarded to you, but it wasn't of the male.
Go ahead and email or call her and "remind" her you are interested. Lil is always doing a dozen things at once, and of course, keeps making excuses on using her new camera...lol.
RE: Time and experience
Patti!,
As you know it can be overwhelming and frustrating at times but I will never get disscouraged!. Have you received more pictures from Lillian?
Margaret you sound just like me....
The only difference is my husband has known for years that I am NUTS!!! lol my friend told me the other day, "You sink your teeth in and you don't let go" referring to my research of Bulldogs. LOL
This is why I have started getting involved...
in the local club and going to the local shows. After not going for years because I had a bully already, when I lost her, I had no idea where to find a bully. I feel that I really lucked out. (Good for her and for me.) In the future, if I need/want another, I don't want to be so totally in the dark about what is out there. Now, my husband thinks I have lost my mind. Granted I did this for a year before I got her and I still didn't know enough or enough people. So I figure that I need to stay involved in going to the shows when I can to learn more and keep up to date. I don't ever think I will know as much as folks like Patti, Sue, Helen, etc.
I am committed to always preserve my feeling that the bulldog should be a loved pet first and a show dog second and not get too wrapped up in the show scene. I am not by nature very competitive, and Because I am drawn to the breed for their personality. They deserve a loving home first as you all know. When I see your bulldogs ensconced on a cushy sofa or bed, I think, that's the ultimate bulldog life. My husband calls them living breathing stuffed animals because they want to be loved on all the time. They are wonderful!
Time and experience
Brian, I answered part of this down in the postings below. However, in your question on "how to know", as some of said, it is talking to, being around, listening, etc. Unfortunately, that doesn't help a novice first timer. But as you go to more shows, I'm sure you have seen and will see competition that are panting their heads off, sounding terrible, with a very obvious bad throat. You start learning, and realizing "so and so's" dog is not a good breather, or littermates, etc., that you see to a dog you might think of breeding to. It is the same as looking for a good rear and front, soundness. After time, and being at shows, etc., you start knowing first hand different dogs. Many might be pulled from showing after a while, but a year or so down the road, suddenly those people have pups from that dog or bitch. Well, you just mentally make note, "hmmm, I don't think I'd touch one of those puppies, I remember the mother, etc."..
Same thing goes for a good, healthy, sound dog. You start knowing the dogs, lines, etc. and get a much better idea.
However, this is where the problem comes in about perhaps breeding to a male across country, that you only seem great show pictures of. You don't really know what this dog is like in person. Then it is a matter of talking to other people in that area, asking them about the dog. Yes, you'll find some that answer based on envy or jeaolousy. But, weed thru it, and you'll come up with what feels comfortable for you.
RE: PS Brian...
Thanks Cindy!,
I sure miss having a male bullie in the house!. I love my little girl but 2 bullies are twice the fun!. I will post current pictures again Wednesday and don't ever be afraid to give me your opinion!. My little girl also misses having a companion.
PS Brian...
I saw the pictures of the pups you are considering below. I do not feel I was really qualified to give you an educated answer on the best pup, but I can give you my personal one.
I love number one. His symetrical markings and his big head and bones. Number two looks real nice as well in the body but I am a sucker for a red. All three of mine are reds.
I sure hope whatever you choose you collect that blue ribbon hands down. Who knows, maybe even the Westminster!LOL
Take care.
talk with everyone and make up your own mind
I have talked to MANY people and have made some great friends, some from this very forum, and although we have a small club here and greatly support each other when you go to Specialty Shows your exposed to a great deal of gossip and for a newcomer it can be overwhelming. It took me a long time to sort out the truths from gossip and did my best not to get caught up in it. I wished SOME breeders were more open with hereditary problems in their line that they were trying to correct, but they are quick to point out other breeders problems. I also wonder why some breeders feel the need to have 3-5 litters a year. I have done my best to surround myself with knowlegable, respected, honest breeders whom I can go to with quesions I may have. I love this breed problems or no problems and to me there is no other breed. I still have alot to learn and will forever have something to learn about this wonderful breed.
I'm with you Brian....
I have also had many discussions ringside and found people to be what I call "kennel blind". Many breeders tend to overlook the faults in their line and focus on the positives. I am not sure they are hiding anything intentionally. I think it is more of a case of denial. As long as these dogs do not have heart trouble or any other type of fatal disease in the litter it seems to be a non issue.
I have come to the conclusion I have to discover what I need to know on my own and the only way to do it is become part of the bulldog community through club memberships and showing. You mentioned it has become a great hobby and I have to agree! I am looking forward to meeting other bulldoggers and getting to know them better and decide who I respect and who I don't. I hope you have as much fun as I do through your bully world journey!
talk with everyone and make up your own mind
Ask to check vet records, if they have something to hid it will be in the records. My experience is, I have joined and become very active in my local bulldog club, I have been around the breeders and others who show so I have a good idea of who I would and would not get a dog from. We have a wonderful club here in Seattle most of our members are so helpful, of course everyone wants to win! Each day only 2 dogs go home with the points and we are supportive of the winners. I think that all clubs have to sour grapes ringside, you just learn who you want to socialize with and those who just want to talk bad about others. I hope that if you are purchasing a bulldog from someone for show, you have spoken with several people leaning about their breeding practices, lines, and views on breeding. Ask for names of people who have puppies from their line, show & pet..... See how their relationship is with the owners/breeders. Don't get involved in anything that sounds to good to be true, because it probably is.
Vicky, Bosco & Bella