ShermanK avatar image

Just got Sherman new food.

I went with natures variety instinct limited ingredient turkey meal formula. I also got him frozen raw but I think I will wait on that for a few. Let him get into this kibble first. My plan is to add the raw as an extra with the kibble maybe a pattie a day. I'm still a little confused about protein levels since raw would be really high. Even this kibble is 29.  A little confusing since I hear not to feed higher than about 25%. At any rate switching over to this kibble to see how it goes..

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-Sherm was here. 

Pegsy's picture

ah shermie...poor lil man

ah shermie...poor lil man going through all this,hope it gets better from here on...i have a feeling raw will be good for him,pls let us know
big smoochies and hugglies

ShermanK's picture

Tell me about it

Yea I hope so. But like I said the raw is still in the freezer for a second but I'm starting the limited ingredient kibble. 

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-Sherm was here. 

Hopefully this will help Sherman..

Dooley has been eating Natures Variety Limited Ingredients lamb for quite some time.  This really made a difference for him.  Good Luck

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ShermanK's picture

Well that's positive

Any reason u think natures variety limited ingredient would be better than natural balance limited ingredient? Like is there a reason this may have a better chance of working for him? I see that natural balance is rated a high quality food too..

__________________

-Sherm was here. 

I can't say either is better then the other. Dooley tried the

Natural Balance limited ingredient and we still had issues.  Mainly itchy red feet.  Sadie our other bully eats Natures Variety Raw lamb.  She had really bad allergies red itchy feet, and tear stains.  She no longer has any issues and she has been eating the raw patties for 4 yrs.  Every dog is going to be different and it may take you many tries to get it right for Sherman.  Hopefullu this is it.

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ShermanK's picture

So Dooley

Eats the kibble and Sadie eats the raw? Any reason they both don't eat the raw? And what does it run you about on the raw per week? It looks pretty expensive. I have the duck. I think it was like 27 dollars for the 3lb bag. What amount of patties do u feed per day? This bag says 7 for his weight which seems like a lot. Or at least it won't last very long lol

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-Sherm was here. 

They both don't eat raw because with Dooley at 65 lbs. He would

eat alot more then Sadie.  Sadie is 48 lbs and she gets 1 8oz pattie a day.  A bag lasts me 12 days for her. The lamb is $39.99.

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Also, if you are going to be using kibble with the raw. You may

need to cut back on the raw/kibble because he may gain weight.  Hard to go by what they suggest.  It may take a little time to determine what is the right anount for Sherman.

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ShermanK's picture

Thanks

So maybe a cup and a half of kibble and 1 patty or something..

__________________

-Sherm was here. 

Deb and MacKenzie and Ester's picture

Can't compare protein levels in kibble

with protein levels in raw. They are completely different animals. I posted an article as to ehy the comparisons are different.

ShermanK's picture

Yea I read it

Basically it has to do with percentage of moisture from what I got from it. But then it says that basically triple the protein of a moist raw to find the protein level correct? So that would make an 18% about 54%? Or I'm not understanding it correctly?

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-Sherm was here. 

Deb and MacKenzie and Ester's picture

No .. I don't think

you are figuring that right.

ShermanK's picture

Ok well this really throws me off.. Copy and pasted last line..

An easier way is to remember this is that the amount of dry matter in the dry food is about three to four times the amount of dry matter in a moist product. To quickly compare guarantees between a dry and moist food, multiply the guarantees for the moist food by three to four times.

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-Sherm was here. 

ShermanK's picture

By the way

I do have the raw in the freezer. Natures variety site says it can be used along with the kibble which is what I plan to do. Any feeding guidelines u could help with on that?

__________________

-Sherm was here. 

Deb and MacKenzie and Ester's picture

The difference is the way the body utilizes the protein

and the quality of the protein. There is good and bad. Just a little of what I could find today. You just can't compare the proteins in raw compared to kibble.

First of all, it is important that we understand that protein isn't only a nutrient - the amino acids it is made up of (think lego bricks forming a bigger structure) also serve as building blocks for body tissues, organs, enzymes, hormones, antibodies and so on - roughly half of the dry body mass of a dog consists of protein. Knowing this it is easy to understand that growing puppies need protein to build above mentioned body tissues, organs, enzymes, hormones, antibodies and both adults and growing puppies constantly need to replace and rebuild these as well. The body recycles amino acids to some extent, but part of them need to be replaced, just like you can't endlessly recycle paper or plastic.

Protein is processed in the liver and any waste materials are filtered and excreted by the kidneys. High quality protein does not generate large amounts of waste that needs to be removed from the body, but poor quality protein which is difficult to digest does and thus puts stress on the kidneys. The liver needs water to process protein and as a medium to carry waste products to the kidneys, where they are filtered out and most of the water is reabsorbed. The less concentrated the waste products in this primary filtrate are, the easier it is for the kidneys to do their filtering work - that's why it is unhealthy to feed dry food only and so critical that dogs eating mostly or exclusively dry food and dogs with liver disease get lots of extra water. Dogs who eat mostly canned food or a home prepared diet automatically take in more moisture and do not need to compensate as much by drinking. Contrary to what many people think and pet food companies claim, dogs (and cats) do not know instinctively how much extra water they have to drink to make up for what is lacking in the dry food. This is why I so highly recommend that people always add water to the kibble at feeding time.

Now that we have the basics laid out, we can return to the protein in the food. Many people cite old, outdated research that claims high protein percentages in the food are harmful to dogs and do all kinds of damage, especially to the liver. Fact is that these studies were conducted by feeding dogs foods that were made from poor quality, hard to digest protein sources, such as soy, corn, byproducts, blood meal and so on. From my explanation above, you now already know that it is a question of protein quality that affects the kidneys. Consider a wolf in the wild, who will eat relatively little else but meat if they can help it - these animals don't get kidney diseases on the same scale domestic dogs do. Their protein comes in the form of quality muscle and organ meat though, not processed leftovers from human food processing. It also contains around 70% moisture, whereas most commercial dry foods contain a maximum of 10%. Dogs and other "dog like" animals (canids) evolved eating a diet that consists primarily of meat, fat and bones, which they have been eating for hundreds of thousands of years. Commercial foods, especially dry food, has only been widely available for the past 60 years and we are still learning how much damage certain aspects of it can do. Things have improved quite a bit from hitting rock bottom in the 70s and 80s, but the majority of pet food manufacturers still produce bad foods from poor quality ingredients

ShermanK's picture

Ok I think I get it

Just plain straight out better food used to make it. Well I am taking ur advice and trying it. But if u read I am also switching to the natures variety grain free limited ingredient kibble. Any opinion on that food? I want to give him kibble and raw. The reason being is that I can't always carry around frozen meat for him everywhere I go pretty much. He rides with me quite a bit. Best buddy. So what do you think of that? I saw u said you used to do that before too. And if I do that, what would be good? 2 cups a day of the kibble with a pattie mixed in at dinner time or something like that?

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-Sherm was here. 

Deb and MacKenzie and Ester's picture

They say if

you are going to feed both to make 1 feeding raw and one feeding kibble. When I was feeding both I did not do that. I mixed the raw with the kibble for all feedings. Never a problem. The thing is the raw is digested differently then the kibble.

When you start feeding the raw you will notice a difference in the amount of water consumed and much less waste.

ShermanK's picture

Oops

Sorry was actually asking u that just as u wrote that at the same time I guess so ignore last post. But thank you. That's what I was thinking of doing. I was concerned that the kibble I got was turkey and the raw is duck but... The raw has turkey parts in there anyway so I guess that wouldn't really throw anything off..

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-Sherm was here. 

Cory's picture

Hope everything works great for Sherm..........

I know how you feel about switching foods an the allergy thing, I was having the same problems with Penelope an I tried a gazillion different foods an finally started her on pre-made raw an she's done great with no more allergy problems. I hope this new food will clear things up for you. If not give the raw food a try.

Best of luck

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Cory & Penelope

ShermanK's picture

Appreciate it

Well I do have the raw in the freezer. It's natures variety. But I am going to do kibble too. Switched cold turkey? Obviously it didn't hurt her. Good to hear. 

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-Sherm was here.