Stenotic Nares


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Stenotic Nares

Hello, I have a 14 week old puppy with Stenotic Nares. I understand that there is laser surgery to correct the problem. I also read that this should be corrected while the pup is still young. Does anyone know when is the optimal age to have this surgery performed? Has anyone heard of any alternative treatments for this?

Thank you.

CatiAult's picture

nares

I know of one puppy that had it done before 6 weeks of age. Hers were so bad she couldn't even nurse properly.

Re: Do not take your time addressing this issue

I understand why you would disagree but too many people out there just dismiss bulldog breathing problems as quirks of the breed. Even if you get your dog from a reputable breeder whom cares 100% about the betterment of the bulldog breed and adheres 100% to the standard you can and will still experience these issues because not enough has been done to track or eradicate the problems. And honestly the closer to the bulldog standard (short muzzle) the higher the likelihood for B.O.A.S. conformation to the standard does nothing to help the breathing issues.

The surgeon I look my dog to is a specialty surgeon @ a specialty hospital. You cannot call up this place and schedule an appointment you must have a referral from your regular vet. My surgeon has worked on MANY bulldogs (even his own frenchie) and sees the same issues over and over; when I took my 10 month old pup in there for palate surgery he was happy that the condition was addresses in the dogs youth.

He has seen many adult bulldogs whose owners where in denial about the seriousness of the ailment wait too long and have to get tracheotomies because the dogs larynx is collapsing.

If you like to wait years to address breathing issues in your dogs that’s fine but I don’t think that you should advise others to do so as letting years go by without treatment will ABSOLUTELY cause irreversible harm.

Also I would like to add that when my pup was hospitalized for aspiration pneumonia one of the emergency vets told me she just got back from an animal respitory seminar in Florida. The conductors of the seminar did a case study on bulldog respitory issues, and they determined that all vets should recommend to bulldog owners that they get the palate clipped when getting spayed/neutered because they found that all bulldogs have elongated palates. All Brachycephalic animals have a longer palate than non Brachycephalic animals, that is a fact.

forgot to say

when looking at puppies..check thier nostrils. If they look narrowed as a pup..keep looking..do not fall in love with the first bullie pup you see.

And yes I do think that dogs need things done ASAP if thier health is being jepordized..I am not against this...

Re: Do not take your time addressing this issue

I have to say that i disagree to an extent. A bulldog matures at different levels. Sometimes a dog that breathes difficult at a young age often will get better with age (as the head matures)
One of my dogs had a nares that was pretty small. As she got older it opened up and there were no problems. By the time she was 1 she did fine.
I feel the same way about palate surgery. Often the head grows and there is enough room for air to pass through the airway..
IMO vets see a Bulldog comming a mile away..thier first thought is to to trim the palate, clip the nostrils and automatically assume they will have problems for the rest of thier life...
Its what type of dog you get when you decide to purchases a puppy that is the problem..If you buy from someone who knows nothing about the standard then its very likely thier bredding program will produce dogs with faults and health issues such as these.....

It is important to ask questions when purchasing a new puppy. Buy from a reputable breeder. One who knows what they are breeding for..not someone who just LOVES Bulldogs and thinks they are sooo cute!

ok that my tidbit for the day....just recieved my Whelping Box newsletter and it always gets me fired up!

I have had two puppies

that had the surgery before they were 5 months old. Do as soon as possible as the other message indicates. Good luck!

BTW there are no alternative treatments

Forgot to mention that, if your pup is not getting enough o2 in its lungs surgery is the only way. I understand your apprehension but please do not let your fears interfere with proper medical care for your pup.

Delaying treatment can lead to laryngeal paralysis which could lead to laryngeal collapse. Laryngeal paralysis can be treated via tracheotomy, when a dog has laryngeal collapse they appear to collapse and die out of no where…it is commonly mistaken for heart failure.

Do not take your time addressing this issue

My pup recently had surgery because he was diagnosed with Brachycephalic Airway Obstruction Syndrome. He did not have stenotic nares, but did have elongated soft palate and everted laryngeal saccules. The specialty surgeon who operated on my pup has worked on many bulldogs and from his experience he recommends that the surgery be performed ASAP. The younger the pup the better.

If your dog has stenotic nares it cannot pull enough oxygen into it's lungs, over time the increased breathing effort can cause the saccules to become everted further blocking the amount of O2 coming into the lungs. Overtime these 2 conditions if not treated early enough can cause irreversible damage to the larynx which could result in laryngeal collapse.

Do not wait to address this issue, but make sure you find a bulldog experienced surgeon/vet.

DUH!!! Re: Stenotic Nares

.

Sue Beaupre

My first bulldog had this done. He was about 15 months old. He had his nose, palate & neuter done all at the same time and came through it with flying colors. My vet is VERY bulldog knowledgeable.

So, my suggestion is to have it done when he's neutered.

Sue

Re: Do not take your time addressing this issue

I understand why you would disagree but too many people out there just dismiss bulldog breathing problems as quirks of the breed. Even if you get your dog from a reputable breeder whom cares 100% about the betterment of the bulldog breed and adheres 100% to the standard you can and will still experience these issues because not enough has been done to track or eradicate the problems.

MY RESPONSE:
NOT TRUE...there are several breeders who have eradicated this problem...many of whom are listed breeders on this site...Yes we all know that even with strict breeding programs things can go wrong. This is genetics..things can pop back up..just as it does in humans..
But a reputable breeder gets this dog spayed or neutered so that this gene is not passed on....it takes a long time and alot of work..but it can be done and is being done.


And honestly the closer to the bulldog standard (short muzzle) the higher the likelihood for B.O.A.S. conformation to the standard does nothing to help the breathing issues.

MY RESPONSE:
Again...I disagree. There are several well known H.O.F Bulldogs who do not have breathing problems or Palate issues or as you call it: BOAS...and many dogs in the show world who are winning and becoming Champions who do not have these problems...all Bulldogs who are as close to the standard as possible..





The surgeon I look my dog to is a specialty surgeon @ a specialty hospital. You cannot call up this place and schedule an appointment you must have a referral from your regular vet. My surgeon has worked on MANY bulldogs (even his own frenchie) and sees the same issues over and over; when I took my 10 month old pup in there for palate surgery he was happy that the condition was addresses in the dogs youth.

MY RESPONSE:
I would be curious to know..How many of those dogs were spayed and neutered after thier surgeries..were the dogs sold on limited registration? Were they from reputable breeders..or backyard breeders...I feel as if you are again generalizing Bulldogs...unfortunalty we see more run of the mill breeders than we do reputable breeders..

He has seen many adult bulldogs whose owners where in denial about the seriousness of the ailment wait too long and have to get tracheotomies because the dogs larynx is collapsing.

If you like to wait years to address breathing issues in your dogs that’s fine but I don’t think that you should advise others to do so as letting years go by without treatment will ABSOLUTELY cause irreversible harm.

MY RESPONSE: DID I SAY YEARS? No I said wait until the dog matures. A bulldogs head and skull do not usually reach maturity until the age of two. But yes..if the dog is fequenting pnemonia or vomiting, under stress becuase it can not breath..then the pup should be done...I was just expressing concern that it is often overdone and often not done on the dogs who really need it...So I guess we can agree to disagree and you can go ahead and reccomend that all the pupos be put under anasethia and I will sit back and pray they make it out alive...


Also I would like to add that when my pup was hospitalized for aspiration pneumonia one of the emergency vets told me she just got back from an animal respitory seminar in Florida. The conductors of the seminar did a case study on bulldog respitory issues, and they determined that all vets should recommend to bulldog owners that they get the palate clipped when getting spayed/neutered because they found that all bulldogs have elongated palates. All Brachycephalic animals have a longer palate than non Brachycephalic animals, that is a fact

MY RESPONSE: PLEAESE!!!!! again..this is a generalization and I would love to see thier research...done in one of the finest states of puppy millers in the US (Florida)..sounds like a vet hoping to make the Bulldog distinct in my opinion...
oh well we have different opinions...and that is that.

If your dog is sick..it should go to the vet..If it has health problems...get it fixed. I am not against vets...I love my vet and i am glad we see things eye to eye. We did our males palate at the age of 2. He also got neutered. He was not from a reputable breeder. My female has no health problems what so ever..She was purchased froma reputable breeder.. Weird how that worked out..Gee i guess it was just luck. But my first Bulldog also came from a backyard breeder and she was nothing comapred to the standard..hummm...we had her put down. She was unhealty and aggressive..
see a pattern here?

enough is not enough

1. thank goodness i don't live in seattle
2. people should quit posting the same junk everytime the make an "educated" post on a medical topic, i.e. vets love me and i know more than them and they come, blah,blah,blah
3. unless you have references to back up your claims, pipe it!!
4. believe it or not you are not an expert just cuz you own dogs.
5. i hope "breeders" from this site, that their clients find better vets than them
6. see 2 and 3

i still can't believe you don't believe in a medical diagnosis. i would only hope that you treat your family, humans, better and listen to doctors. but then again, i'm sure you have some miracle soap that heals all.

Dave, I wondered if it was just me...

I don't know if people just type too fast and don't proofread, but some of the posts sure make me question the quality of our school system!

Vic- Do you think a 5.5 trach tube is small for a 6 mo. old?

Our 6 month old had his soft palate done, and while it seemed to help, he still had rib contractions every time he breathed. A specialist said his trach was small and he had everted saccules. After pneumonia at 13 weeks, watching him breathe with such effort, we let him go back to the breeder. She has since found him a loving home, and while we agonize over our decision, the specialist vet said we made the right decision.

Re: Vic- Do you think a 5.5 trach tube is small for a 6 mo. old?

There is a specific ratio for bulldog tracheas. Even though Vicky L "does not believe in this dianosis" it exists.

This is an excerpt from a PDF file I have on B.O.A.S:
English bulldogs should also be evaluated for a
hypoplastic trachea. On a lateral radiograph,
measurements of the thoracic inlet diameter (TI),
(distance from the ventral aspect of the first thoracic
vertebrae to the inner surface of the manubrium), and
the tracheal lumen diameter (TD) should be acquired.
The median ratio of TD/TI in the normal bulldog is
0.116; for normal dogs of other brachycephalic breeds it
is 0.157; and for normal dogs of non-brachycephalic
breeds it is 0.208. Prognosis for bulldogs with tracheal
hypoplasia (ratio < 0.116) can be considerably worse.

Here are some informative links about the B.A.O.S. I found, take the time to research your pup’s condition.

Scroll down to the bottom of this link and read the prognosis section, the younger they are treated the better. http://www.vin.com/VINDBPub/SearchPB/Proceedings/PR05000/PR00415.htm

http://www.upei.ca/cidd/Diseases/respiratory%20disorders/brachycephalic%20syndrome.htm

http://www.petplace.com/dogs/brachycephalic-syndrome/page1.aspx

http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=663&S=1

http://www.americasanimalsociety.org/Brachycephalic%20Syndrome.htm

http://www.vsasurgery.com/surgery/soft-tissue/brachycephalic.asp.htm

http://www.bulldogfrances.com/brachy2.html

http://www.bostonterrierclubofamerica.org/health/The%20Brachycephalic%20Syndrome.pdf

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=Display&DB=pubmed



just a bit more

i'm sure noone will read this because too far down, BUT, Rhiann, if you read the prev posts about reverse sneezing, the majority of people say, "it comes with the breed" and they mention other dogs that have the same problem. if it wasn't for Drea(?) I would not be going to see the vet tomorrow to have my pup looked at. I am at the vet on average recently 2x's a month and it is a good 40 mins away. there are too many un-educated bulldog owners on this site. sure they be educated cuz theys got themselves bulldogs and knows all bout them, but just because you have a baby doesn't make you a pediatrician. (my poor spelling was on purpose). Well, i just hope that people with some smarts continue to post and don't just go along with everyone else. that's all folks

ickytazz's picture

I do not believe in this diagnosis

Baos or what ever they are calling it.


It bothers me that they bunch dogs with smashed in faces in to this group. I asked the question about a month ago on several boards, not many very very good breeders had heard of it. It was thought to be a way for vets to make money off surgery.

Saying that, Blush 5 months just had her palate done. At 3 weeks she had a very bad case of pneumonia and was very sick for 6+ weeks. She has had continued problems breathing. We brought her in for her 5 month follow up chest x-ray to check the scarring on her lungs and we checked her palate. Yep from the struggling to breath she now had an elongated palate. WE have been watching her x-rays for her lungs but also watching for her trachea. We have been told over and over her trachea is very small.

Well she had her palate and spay on Friday, her Trachea is a size 7 that is the size of many adult bulldogs. Everything else is 100% just fine no problems. If her Sacuals were out we were going to put Kenalog injections in them to shrink vs having to have them removed. I would not every do her palate and sacuals at the same time.


Many bulldogs are mouth breathers, even if they have huge wide nostrils.

I have a wonderful vet, he calls me if he has a section and needs help. We talk very open about all the treatment of my dogs, if and when surgery is needed he is very up front. He owns Pugs so know about the smashed face breed. Not all vets believe this diagnosis either, and not all vets are out to make money off the breed. But you have to watch the ones who say "all smashed face dogs need ...... done" ONe of my puppes went to a new home a few months ago, she called as the vet said he would fix his palate when he is under to be neutered. WHAT he doesnt have a palate issue she said, but the vet said all Bulldogs need their palate done, not her vet anymore.

Vicky, Bosco, Bella, Breve' & Holly
http://www.rubarbsoap.com/
Bulldog Club of Greater Seattle

Re: Clarification

What part of the country do you live in? Did the quote include overnight hospitalization?

If your pup is not in distress 6 months will be fine, the airway will not become damaged unless she has to put substantial effort into breathing. Just keep your eye on her .

Re: Do not take your time addressing this issue

This is exactly the type of response I hoped not to get but in a sad way I am not surprised to receive it.

If you have done proper research into your breeders and lines that is great but you need to realize that not everyone on this board has and for some they take this site as the gospel. If you happened to be one of the individuals who didn't do proper research they need to know what the big picture is, what the worst case scenario could be. I made the mistake for taking the symptoms of B.O.A.S. as normal bulldog quirks which in the end cost me $3500 and an immeasurable amount emotional pain. And no, this was not my first bulldog...and yes his breeder is reputable.

My pup has H.O.F. lineage yet he somehow managed to acquire B.O.A.S. You do realize all Brachycephalic animals have a longer palate than non Brachycephalic animals, that is a fact.

If you actually put effort into researching this condition it would be very easy to see the data and studies collected by vets. If you choose not to believe the studies that's fine but the data is objective, it's not a personal attack against bulldogs.

The seminar I spoke of was HELD in Miami, I am not sure why you assumed the data only pertained to the puppy mill capital of the world's bulldog stock.

And yes you did say wait 2 YEARS until the dog matures to determine if the surgery is needed. In some scenarios that may be too long that's all I am saying.

Are you seeing a vet that is knowledgeable with Bulldogs?

I would really get a 2nd opinion and price from one that does. That sounds high to me.

Clarification

Sorry, I should have been more specifc. My puppy's nose is not closed completely - she can breath through her nose, she snores a bit while sleeping. I can exercise her (ie take her for a walk on a cool day) and she doesn't pant. Her nostrils are just small. The vet said other than that she's very healthy. She also recommended having her spayed at the same time so we'd need to wait until she is 6 months old. I was just wondering if that's too long to wait? We knew the puppy had stenotic nares when we bought her but the breeder said that it's a common problem and the surgery to correct it is inexpensive. The vet's estimate was $1100 - $1400. That's not cheap to me....

I agree also some vets see $$ when a Bu7lldog is in their care.

Some problems are really not problems at all but some vets make them so including the vets that want to operate on knees when a pup is under 1 year old.

Agree, Rhiann

Bulldogs continue to develop, and they can grow into that throat. Our bulldog specialist recommends that owners wait until the pup is mature to see what the throat will be like. Again, if your pup is vomiting, having a hard time breathing, that's different, but let's face it, many vets want to clip the palate just because the dog is a bulldog. If my pup is not sick, I'd rather wait and see what the outcome will be when he's a bit older.

nares

Again, if your pup is not having problems with the stenotic nares, I would suggest you wait. If she can exercise, breathe normally, and doesn't throw up, and doesn't have abnormal symptoms, why would you want to do surgery?!

thank you..this has been interesting...

This is exactly the type of response I hoped not to get but in a sad way I am not surprised to receive it.
DONT BE SAD..WE ALL ARE ENTITLED TO OUR OWN OPINIONS..

If you have done proper research into your breeders and lines that is great but you need to realize that not everyone on this board has and for some they take this site as the gospel.
EXACTLY WHY I PUT MY TWO CENTS IN...ALL OPINIONS ON A SUBJECT SHOULLD BE POSTED TO LESSEN THE CHANCE OF A BIASED ONE...ULTIMATLY IT IS UP TO THE OWNER TO DECIDE WHAT TO DO WITH THER DOG REGARDLESS OF WHAT IS POSTED HERE.


My pup has H.O.F. lineage yet he somehow managed to acquire B.O.A.S.
ALL BULLDOG WILL HAVE A CHMPION IN THEIR PEDIGREE IF YOU LOOK HARD AND LONG ENOUGH...I WAS NOT IMPLYING THAT ONLY BULLDOGS WITH HOF OR CH IN THIER PREDIGREE MAKES THEM FREE OF ALL HEALTH PROBLMES, BUT I DO FEEL IT LESSENS THE CHANCES...MY FIRST BULLDOG WAS A HOF GRANDAUGHTER..BUT WHEN YOU THREW IN THE BAD BITCH TO THAT LINE YOU GOT CRAP!

You do realize all Brachycephalic animals have a longer palate than non Brachycephalic animals, that is a fact. YES. BUT THAT DOES NOT AUTOMATICALLY MAKE THEM A CANIDATE FOR SURGERY.
..YOU STATED THAT THE RESERACH SHOWED ALL BULLDOGS SHOULD HAVE PALATE SURGERY...OBJECTIVE STATEMENT? NO THAT IS CALLED A GENERALIZED STAEMENT IMO.
ANY TIME A DATE CONCLUDES THE WORDS "ALL" A RED FLAG SHOULD GO UP! IF THAT STATEMENT WERE DONE BY ME AND I CHOOSE A BUCNH OF BULLDOGS IN MY TOWN THEN I WOULD PROBABLY GET THE SAME RESULTS..THATS BECAUSE MY AREA IS FILLED WITH BACKYARD BREEDERS AND PUPPYMILLERS...MY GUESS IS THAT THIS SO CALLED RESEARCH PROJECT DID NOT INCLUDE BULLDOGS FROM ALL TYPES OF BREEDERS..HOW DO I KNOW THIS..WELL I CAN NOT THINK OF ONE REPUTABLE BREEDER WHO WOULD OF PUT THIER SHOW QUALITY DOG UNDER AND LET THEM PERFORM PALATE SECTION ON THEM.,.AS THIS IS AN AKC DISQULIFICATION...
AGAIN..i AM NOT TRYING TO ARGUE..JUST A GOOD OLE DEBATE...I MAY HAVE TAKEN THIS PERSONAL ONLY BECAUSE I DO NOT WANT MY DOG GENERALIZED UNDER THOSE TYPES OF REMARKS..

TYPING IN CAPS ONLY SO YOU KNOW WHAT I WROTE...NOT A NET SCREAM...




Thanks everyone for your help and insight;-)

Thanks everyone for your help and insight;-)

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