Lisa,

May I suggest that you do a simple comparison of Goat's Milk to what nature provides via the bitch?

First, recognize that the commercial nursing supplements contain precisely the same levels as what the bitch provides - I mean why would they manufacture it any differently?

In any event, I would suggest that you compare four key ingredients in the Goat's Milk to that in the bitch's milk:

PROTEIN
FAT
LACTOSE
CALORIES/OUNCE

You will find the Goat's Milk has less then half the protein, less then half the fat, and about a third MORE Lactose, and you will need to feed nearly twice as much Goat's Milk to get the same calories into the pup.

A half century ago when there was no dog (or human) supplement, Karo Syrup was a big player... it is now understood the problems with these concoctions... no mother would likely even consider using a homebrew to feed their infant. Dog people are sometimes slower advance.

SUSAN

You buy it at the grocery store, in the same section as the evaporated milk. And yes, you can subsitute it for the evaporated milk. I feel you have less stomach upset with the goats milk over the evaporated milk.

where do you buy goats milk? I was told 1 can of canned evap. milk, 1 can of water, 1 egg yoke, no whites, and 1 tsp karo syrup does this sound right? would you just substitute goats milk in place of canned milk?

Your view would be entirely consistent with the info I posted above.

I am sure it will be evaluated thusly.

SUSAN

I have always used goats milk formula with no problems and the pups love it!

I was one that posted before about the formula using 1 can goats milk, 1 equal parts pedialyte, one egg yolk, one tbl of liquid pectin.

I have on occasion used the commercial formula from the vets. But 95% of the time I have used my formula using goats milk and as with Shelly, I have raised many litters over the years and they have done well.

Goat's milk is an excellent replacement. And, in fact, I had my vet's office call me because a breeder with another breed was having terrible problems with a litter, and the commercial products were not doing well. He changed to my goats milk formula and the puppies picked up and thrived.

Guess we can all use different examples as success. But, I agree with Shelly's comment, why do they make commercial forumlas? To get a piece of the market. Same as that there are dozens of different dog foods all swearing to be the best, with just as many on the board arguing for their brand and ingredients.

I'm sorry I got into this... just tried to point out that neither Goats Milk nor Cow's Milk - nor snake milk - is an adequate replacement for a bitch's milk.

Now ladies, taking the 'one made with cows milk' that you mention, the ingredients are:

Water, skimmed milk, soy oil, sodium caseinate, butter, egg yolk, calcium caseinate, l-arginine, dl-methionine, calcium carbonate, potassium chloride, potassium phosphate monobasic, lecithin, magnesium sulfate, choline chloride, sodium chloride, carrageenan, potassium phosphate dibasic, ascorbic acid, vitamin A supplement, zinc sulfate, iron sulfate, vitamin E supplement, copper sulfate, niacin supplement, calcium pantothenate, vitamin B12 supplement, vitamin D3 supplement, manganese sulfate, riboflavin, thiamine hydrochloride, pyridoxine hydrochloride, potassium iodide, and folic acid.

Sounds like cows milk by itself doesn't cut it in Esbilac's mind.

Same story for Goats Milk... in any event, I list a comparison of this formula to straight Goats Milk up above and the facts are the facts.

I've moved on. Again, sorry to have tried to simply point out to the original poster that a check of the fat, calories/ounce, etc might help in deciding.

SUSAN

Esbilac makes a goats milk formula ladies for puppies and I have used it. The pups digest the one (Esbilac) made with the goats milk better the the one made with cows milk.

I believe that wha I was posting was somehow directed at you. It was not.

The reason that the manufacturers of Esbilac and other similar products duplicate the protein levels, fat levels, calories per ounce, digestability, etc, etc and as many as possible other contents is because to do otherwise would place the pups at risk and would cause them to LOSE market share.

Again, any nutrition board or book will provide the breakdowns for those that are researching what supplements to use (if needed) with a litter.

I am glad that you have raised many litters and I am even more glad that using Goats Milk has allowed you to always have sassy, healthy puppies. Also, I am glad thad you have had such success with Karo Syrup. As I suggested, it was quite the "in" thing many, many years ago for puppies and infants.

SUSAN

"I mean why would they manufacture it any differently?"

To make sales for one. I have never used the processed mother's milk and I have raised many litters. I do not add the Karo syrup and I only use it dilutated as a supplement. Later I add baby rice cereal with the goats milk and I have always had fat, sassy, healthy puppies! Good luck in which every formula you decide to use.

Puppy Formulas

http://www.doggieconnection.com/recipe/puppy_formulas.html

Recipe #1
2/3 Cup Goat milk canned (or just regular canned milk)
1/3 Cup water or Pedialyte
1 teaspoon Karo Syrup
1 egg yolk
1 teaspoon Dyne or pediatric vitamin

Strain a couple of times to make sure there is no albumin in the mixture, although it has been used successfully without egg at all.

Source: Chryste Gettman

Variation: 1 can of Condensed Milk rather than goat's milk (it may be too high in protein and put a strain on the puppy's kidneys 1 envelope of Knox unflavored gelatin in addition to other ingredients (helps keep stools solid).

Recipe #2
1 cup of canned Condensed milk or evaporated milk
4 ounces plain, full-fat yogurt
1 egg yolk
1 dropper full of baby vitamins

Mix well.

Source: Phyllis McNall

Recipe #3
2 cups hot water
1 can Evaporated milk (Not condensed--both are in bakery section of store but different products)
2 eggs
2 tablespoons Karo syrup
2 envelopes Knox unflavored gelatin.

Mix thoroughly to get the gelatin working.

Source: Linda Campbell

Recipe #4
4 ounces Carnation EVAPORATED milk
4 ounces FULL FAT natural, plain yogurt
1 tablespoon Mayonnaise, (NOT salad dressing and definitely NOT DIET)
1 egg yolk
1 dropper full of human baby pediatric liquid vitamin, no fluoride.

Whiz in blender...feed baby.

Source: Julie Richards







Nutritional Data:


KCAL: 0 (calories)
Calories from fat: 0%
Calories from Carbohydrates: 0%
Calories from Protein: 0%
Total Fat: 0 g
Saturated Fat: 0 g
Monounsaturated Fat: 0 g
Polyunsaturated Fat: 0 g

Total Carbohydrates: 0 g
Protein: 0 g
Dietary Fiber: 0 g
Cholesterol: 0 mg
Vitamins & Minerals:
Sodium: 0 mg
Potassium: 0 mg
Calcium: 0 mg
Iron: 0 mg
Zinc: 0 mg
Vitamin C: 0 mg
Vitamin A: 0 IU
Vitamin A: 0 RE
Vitamin B6: 0 mg
Vitamin B12: 0 mcg
Thiamin B1: 0 mg
Riboflavin B2: 0 mg
Folacin: 0 mcg
Niacin: 0 mg



Vicky Bosco & Bella

Lisa,

There can be little doubt that the commercial formulae best approach approximating what you bitch would have provided!

Goat's Milk does not nearly approximate either the fat content or digestability of mother's milk.

It's obvious why the vendors copy mother.

SUSAN

PS Makes you wonder whether "digestability" is a word. LOL